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1853 1/4 Calif. Gold Token real or fake

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New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  9:37 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I bought this token back in like 2003 and have recently found out that it may be real and may be fairly rare. I really haven't found any information my self to diagnose it my self so I was hoping someone could help me out.

the following two images are of my actual coin. Though my camera sucks so the next two are of a coin that I found on the web that is the exact same as mine.

My Token (1)



My Token (2)



Similar Token (1)



Similar Token (2)



Mine from what I and several of my friends can see is exactly the same. Except for the condition, mine is much better. That's what worries me, though it does seem to have an age correct patina but maybe it was taken better care of. Maybe case kept and it slowed down the oxidation.

What I do know-
-None magnetic
-less than a half inch wide
-its pretty thin

New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  9:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you cant really help me due to the bad picture quality, could anyone atleast give me some ideas as to how to find out if its real or fake on my own?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
859 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  9:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's one that is similar on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1853-Califo...em2a1f48e47a
Valued Member
United States
86 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  10:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tmaring to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
... and if you want to make your own, here's a guy selling the die. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESTATE-1855...t_1471wt_952
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  10:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you D. That does seem to be my coin. Though for some reason the shape of the head and placement of the date seem to be slightly off. Maybe its just the lighting though.
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2012  10:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well Tmaring, that's not looking good for me and my coin but that die date is "1855" and on top of that it appears that the token he is using as example is dated "1854". Mine is "1853".
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  12:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
..soooooooo any other ideas
Pillar of the Community
Australia
8678 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  01:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am normally into ancients. A favorite way of picking die struck forgeries is to compare the styles of suspect coins with known genuine examples.

I personally know very little about this series.

What you need is a photofile of known all genuine examples.
Surely, sometime in the last 100 years, someone has completed a scholarly study on these tiny pieces of important American history.

That photofile needs to be referenced, using comparison observations.

The usual investigative methods of weighing, dimensions and photomicography also apply.

I'll betcha the ANS can provide most of the information you need.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
597 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  7:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's really time consuming to try to "type" Cal gold tokens, so... you can give it a whirl here VVV

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/

The menu on the left side, well, there's a lot to go through...
Bonne Chance!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1392 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  11:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bonne chance, indeed. The coin that got me into collecting counterfeits was an old California Gold token. With so many varieties and so many replicas your best bet is to first start out with getting its composition analyzed (find a lab nearby that will do XRF for cheap). If it comes back anything other than gold, you'll have saved yourself hours of headache.

If it does come back as gold... then the search begins.
-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins.
Counterfeit identification and attribution services.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
8678 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2012  11:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fortunately, I have a buddy that can do XRF on the cheap. He live next door to me. I haven't needed to approach him myself to do an analysis yet, but it is good to know he is there.
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  12:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live right by a gold pawn shop, over time and with selling my own old and found gold jewlery there I have became friends with the owner. He will tell me if its gold or not for free and test it right in front of me.
New Member
United States
12 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2012  12:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jacob3191 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But if the one in the larger pictures above that I posted is real I think mine has a good fighting chance because they are exactly the same visually other than condition. To me though mine looks more like gold than that one, it looks more like copper. But I did read some where that the coins are like 85% gold and 15% copper to add stringth to the coin. other wise its so thin it would just bend at ease.
Valued Member
United States
68 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  4:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jay Kristofferson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin is likely best described as a fantasy California Gold Token. Here is an image of one in my collection of fake or fantasy California gold tokens and several similar tokens made by the same producer. None of these are gold so yours is probably not gold either.

Images 1 and 2 Like your token
Images 3 and 4 Similar but octagonal
Images 5 and 6 Liberty round. One is "proof"
Images 7 and 8 Liberty octagonal.

All tokens by the same maker. I do not know who or when these tokens were produced.

Likely made in the 60s or 70s ... maybe, I think. :)







'
















Valued Member
United States
68 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  4:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jay Kristofferson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is another 1853 fantasy token somewhat like yours with a different reverse. This token is 50 to 70 years old and is actually made of gold.



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United States
11098 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  5:09 pm  Show Profile Check biokemist6's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The two primary signs of a Cal Gold reproduction/fantasy-

1) a goofy looking bear
2) no denomination
ANA R-3151318
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