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A hoard, an accumulation, a collection [Rant]

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Pillar of the Community
United States
2839 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2013  9:20 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Once and for all I want to address this.

A "hoard" is gathered with determination to acquire as many coins as possible. Neither thought nor purpose is part of the process.

An "accumulation" is gathered with SOME thought. There is desire and liking to be sure. But no real direction.

A "collection" is put together with forethought. A series, such as all Washington Quarters from 1932 until 1964. A type set, such as an example of every kind of quarter made.
ALWAYS there is thought involved. A purpose. A goal.

A jar or three of pennies gathered by a grandfather is NOT a collection - it is an accumulation. No harm, no foul. But it is NOT a collection.
To make it into a collection, one must ORGANIZE it!
Organization = a collection.

By date, by condition, by ANY criteria you choose.
A "collection" is what you want it to be.

End of rant.

I have never met a Barber Coin which I didn't like. Visit us at the Barber Coin Collectors' Society
http://www.barbercoins.org/
Pillar of the Community
United States
8998 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2013  9:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
To make it into a collection, one must ORGANIZE it!


Does by piles on the computer desk count
Pillar of the Community
United States
2839 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2013  9:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of course!
I have all kinds of stuff at my computer, from junk mail to my latest acquisition.
'Tis nice to have a $$$ coin sitting next to me.
I have never met a Barber Coin which I didn't like. Visit us at the Barber Coin Collectors' Society
http://www.barbercoins.org/
Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2013  9:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Fatman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Read, understood and I agree with the logic.

Now relax in the knowledge you have been listened to.

Now for the Fatman Waddle Dance - it's about to get ugly, Beware

Pillar of the Community
Canada
3154 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2013  10:09 pm  Show Profile Check noahs-numismatics's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I've gotta learn that dance!
My want list!

Check out my website!
Buying and Selling Currency of all types and years:
http://noahs-numismatics.com/
Valued Member
United States
319 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  12:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fromms2244 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There has to be a story attached to this "rant." What is it?
Pillar of the Community
1119 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  02:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add erkle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
something to do with accumulating a hoard of collections ;)
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3154 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  09:22 am  Show Profile Check noahs-numismatics's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My want list!

Check out my website!
Buying and Selling Currency of all types and years:
http://noahs-numismatics.com/
Pillar of the Community
United States
2839 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  09:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"There has to be a story attached to this "rant." What is it?"

Long story short, new people who come here an post that they have inherited collection when in fact
the organization is lacking. I am a language nut, and using correct, precise words is part
of the blessing/curse.

When gladdens my heart are people such as ThisIsFun who find themselves with a large number of coins and choose
to study and organize them, both for sale and selective keeping.

Not much more to say, except that from time to time a little rant is therapeutic.

I have never met a Barber Coin which I didn't like. Visit us at the Barber Coin Collectors' Society
http://www.barbercoins.org/
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2400 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  10:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the mention, Matthew! As my screen name indicates, I am truly having fun. Studying is what I do, having spent a quarter of a century on my education and training... unable to break that habit now. I am delighted to find such a diverse body of information to study in coin collecting. So many angles of attack! So many ways to enjoy it!

Generally I don't waste time on regrets, but it is impossible for me to not have some regret for failing to take an interest in numismatics as a child while my grandfather was alive. Oh the fun we would have had. And I would have saved some valuable coins from being sold to the local dealer for a song after his passing.

Edited to add: As per your definitions above, my grandfather's coins were an accumulation, not a hoard, not truly a collection.
slowly building a nice website for my ancient coins.
Edited by ThisIsFun
02/03/2013 10:20 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2839 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  10:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And you, dear ThisIsFun, are taking an accumulation and turning it into a collection!
Some for sale, some for saving. And the education that you receive from the effort is priceless.

Regret, huh? From time to time I credit my Great Aunt Tootsie for collecting a bunch of nice coins.
A collection, as they were in folders. By date and mint mark.
In her later years, she moved from New York City to Connecticut and lived with my mother.
Her coins were kept hidden. I never saw them until after she died.
I KNEW what we had, and sis and mom let me manage them.
But what a missed opportunity to chit-chat about coins. Sad.
I have never met a Barber Coin which I didn't like. Visit us at the Barber Coin Collectors' Society
http://www.barbercoins.org/
Pillar of the Community
Austria
1001 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  11:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With some trepidation I take minor issue with the definition of hoard. Within the field of numismatics "hoard" refers to a large amount of coins that have been buried or otherwise hidden away and then found decades, centuries,even millennia later.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2810 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  11:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add yotie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I belive I have all three. I hoard copper cents and silver dimes and accumlate canadian coins and collect many modern series of US coinage
Valued Member
Canada
279 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  12:01 pm  Show Profile Check rickynic's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rickynic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said.... Thanks... I am not new to the collecting of stuff, only new to collecting coins.. and I have to agree with your take on this...
Pillar of the Community
United States
2839 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  4:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
austrokiwi, you describe a "cache."

cache (n.)
1797, "hiding place," from French Canadian trappers' slang, "hiding place for stores" (1660s), a back-formation from French cacher "to hide, conceal" (13c., Old French cachier), from Vulgar Latin *coacticare "store up, collect, compress," frequentative of Latin coactare "constrain," from coactus, pp. of cogere "to collect" (see cogent). Sense extended by 1830s to "anything stored in a hiding place."

yotie,

Makes sense. A hoard, an accumulation, a cache or a collection. All are good.
Everyone can do what they wish. But please use the correct word. Even the esteemed field of numismatics has
its share of erroneous words now accepted and used.

rickynic,

Agree with me or with astrokiwi?

Look, kids. When I read a plea for help from a new member who is charged with the task of managing coins
I most always approach the problem the same way: to a person who is not knowledgeable about coins the stuff
is an accumulation. The kind members of the CCF take the newbie under our collective wing and offer all kinds of help.
We offer information about how to organize what is at first bewildering. It is one of the things we do best.

It is in that spirit that I rant from time to time.
I have never met a Barber Coin which I didn't like. Visit us at the Barber Coin Collectors' Society
http://www.barbercoins.org/
Moderator
Learn More...
Australia
11233 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  6:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with matthewvincent's criterion, with one key difference: I tend to apply these labels to the people, rather than to the assortments of coins themselves. And I would add a fourth label.

A "hoarder" is someone who rather compulsively gathers every single strange, odd or unusual coin they ever get their hands on. No organization, no idea about what exactly is in their "hoard", and if you picked up one coin from their hoard and asked them a question about it, they wouldn't have a clue.

An "accumulator" is similar, but there is a little more thought, a little more knowledge, and tends to focus on some areas more than others - wheat cents, for example. They may know enough about the coins of particular interest to them to answer questions about them generally, but they won't have an answer if you pick up a specific coin and ask them why that coin, in particular, is part of their accumulation.

A "collector" is usually highly goal-motivated - "completing the set" being a common goal, but not necessarily the only one. They have extensive knowledge, and probably a rather large library of books and a long list of bookmarked websites about the coins of interest to them, and if you picked up one coin from their collection, they could not only tell you the vital statistics about it (year, mint, mintage, designer etc) but probably be able to tell you when, where and for how much they acquired that particular coin. Collectors often have little or no interest in keeping "duplicates", though will actively seek "upgrades" once the collection is "complete".

Finally, there are the "numismatists". For a numismatist, knowledge is of supreme importance - in extreme cases, a numismatist doesn't even own any coins at all, but they do have extensive knowledge. Often their field of interest is extremely specialized. A particular concern of most numismatists is a scientific methodology: they do research, and are keen to see the results of their research published - in books, magazines, at the coin club, on the Internet, wherever - so that the research they do is made known to the wider collecting community.

The reason I label the people rather than the coins is that organization is a key difference between the various labels, and one person's logical organized system could well be everyone else's chaotic mess. It's entirely possible that great-grandpa's "hoard" was originally organized by him as a proper "collection", but the logic behind the organization died with him.

Finally, I would agree with austrokiwi. "Coin hoard", in Europe and in Britain in particular, most often refers to a buried cache of ancient or mediaeval coins. In England, there is a legal definition of how many coins more than 400 years old you need to have to constitute a "hoard" - I believe it's two gold or silver coins, or ten base-metal coins. Finds of "hoards" are treated differently to finds of individual coins under the law.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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