Coin Community Forum Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest! Check out our Google+!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

1909 S VDB. A note about the start of production  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

United States
1199 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  01:44 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
We are told that the 1909 Lincoln cents with the initials VDB, on the reverse, were introduced on the 2nd of August 1909.

The Mint Directors Report for Fiscal Year 1909,( p. 45) for San Francisco, show that 1,424,000 cents were produced.

The fiscal year runs from July 1, 1908 till June 30, 1909.

Of the 1,424,000 cents produced in FY1909 1,115,000 were 1908-S Indian cents ( production began on November 27, 1908 ibid), and 309,000 were 1909-S Indian cents. Meaning that NO VDB Cents were produced till July 1,1909; though the dies had been produced in May ( Q.David Bowers; A guide book of Lincoln Cents; Whitman 1st edition p. 28)

That may well be the real reason that the mintage of San Francisco 1909-S VDB cents was so small. With the San Francisco mint producing well over a million 1908-S Indian Head cents in, not more than, 33 days, it seems reasonable to assume that the San Francisco Mint did not begin to coin 1909-S VDB cents till the second or third week of July. Just shy of the introduction date.

I have found nothing in my research that states why this happened, but I can I think make a reasonable hypothosis.

It has been stated that there was little demand for the Cent on the west coast, where it had not circulated prior to 1907; to any great degree.

There was a tax introduced in 1907 that introduced a demand on the west coast for the Cent. This demand may well have been met by the mintage of 1908 and 1909 minted Indian Head cents. Noting that the 1909 mintage was the smallest San Francisco mintage in the history of that mint. That would suggest that the demand was take care of by the stock on hand, with no need to begin production of the new design. Especially as there were no dedicated presses for the minor coinage. That need being satisfied by presses used for Siver Coinage.

The other possible reason was that perhaps there was not enough, or any, copper stock at the San Francisco Mint to produce Bronze cents after the cessation of the production of the 1909 Indian Head cent.

After reflection that actually makes more sense. If the Mint at San Francisco had to wait for the new Fiscal Year to fund their ability to purchase metals for the production of the new Lincoln cents. Then they would have had to wait for the new material to be delivered. This may be particularly true if the Mint had to produce more coins for the Philippines.

Looking again at the Mint Directors report of 1909; I find that the Coiner operated on 1,316,474.60 Troy ounces of copper. The Coiner delivered 796,502 troy ounces of copper coin. Of this 654,102 ounces of finished coin were produced for the Philippines for a total mintage of 3,924,612 One Centavos.

The Mint Directors Report shows that the percentage of material produced from the amount operated on was 56.15 percent.

Leading one to believe that production of the 1909-S Indian Head cent was halted due to a lack of Copper.

On balance I now believe that the mint at San Francisco did have to wait for the begining of the new Fiscal Year to purchase new Copper.

I hope that this adds to the understanding of the production history of the 1909-S VDB

Edited by jmkendall
02/17/2017 01:45 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2737 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  02:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting!

Thanks for sharing.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
9920 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  07:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting info..
True North
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
1916 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  08:07 am  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The gubmint...budgets...finances..things never change!
"I'm beginning to like the taste of my feet. I find them inside my mouth continually."
Pillar of the Community
United States
509 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  08:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paola1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was always curious about it , very interesting , thanks !
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15608 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Odd subject to worry about. But thanks for taking the time to do the research.
just carl
Valued Member
United States
295 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thulium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Meaning that NO VDB Cents were produced till July 1,1909; though the dies had been produced in May ( Q.David Bowers; A guide book of Lincoln Cents; Whitman 1st edition p. 28)


In "The Complete Guide of Lincoln Cents" by David Lange, it has a detailed history of the design and introduction of the Lincoln cent to the public. According the the sources given in the book, the first striking of the Lincoln cent happened late in 1909, beginning on August 2nd with cents bearing "V.D.B" on the reverse. Apparently, in response to public outcry over the prominence of these initials, the V.D.B was removed with the first cent lacking initials struck on Aug 12th. --condensed from pages 12-16 of this book.

I'm unsure which source is correct--decide for yourself. A brief mention of the timeline is also given here. Although the story of Victor David Brenner placing his initials prominently first, only to be struck down later makes sense to me. Otherwise, if the V.D.B cents were struck later, why don't they continue into 1910 and later?
Edited by Thulium
02/17/2017 12:49 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
12801 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent research, jmkendall and Thulium.
"It's amazing the things people would rather have than money."

Pillar of the Community
United States
1199 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually August 2nd was the official Roll Out date. The Mint Director ordered the Philadelphia Mint to produce as much as it could so that there would be a sufficient quantity on hand on August 2nd. This is all taken from the Official Mint Report for 1909.

I think you got things a bit confused. The VDB cents were made in late July and then the Non VDB cents were made in August. Which is precisely what is stated. Where it said "No Vdb" cents it meant that "VDB" cents were NOT produced until July 1st, at the earliest. With production of VDB cents probably occuring in late July. Followed by the NON VDB cents in August.

Hope that clears it up. Oh, and My source is one of the sources, if not the source, used by Lang for his book.
Valued Member
United States
295 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thulium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the clarification. It's a rather confusing story, it's hard to piece a clear chronology from each event cited in those pages.
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Ending Soon   Newly Listed   Lowest Price   Highest Price   Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2017 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2017 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.47 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05