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Developing my newest coin product! VERDI-CARE™

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Bedrock of the Community
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11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  7:18 pm Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

VERDI-CARE™ is now available at Wizard Coin Supply!

http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/verdi-care.html


PLEASE ask questions and give comments, positive OR negative. I need everyone to give me support and criticism, it's all helpful to me. Questions are especially important because I will use them in the product FAQ if they are good enough.


I've never liked mineral oil as a coin conservation chemical. Mineral oil will always contain trace impurities such as sulfur, chlorine and phosphorus which can all cause changes to the coin surface via surface reaction. It's an "old school" coin chemical used for hundreds of years. Personally, I refuse to use it, but dealers/collectors/conservationists buy the product called "Coin Care" like crazy. I completed a lab analysis of that product, it is nothing more than napthenic mineral oil with a citrus odorant. Absolutely no magic there....but people keep using on their coins everyday. Who knows what the long-term effects will be after the oil impurities (and perhaps the citrus odorant) effect the coin surface?



I prefer not to leave my coin conservation chemicals to mystery! My answer to Coin Care is a modern chemical approach that uses the latest in chemical technology. The new product in the VERDI-™ line will be called VERDI-CARE™. It contains absolutely NO OIL and has the added benefit of using the exact same active surface protectant that the US Mint uses on today's coinage. The product will conserve and condition ANY coin surface and leave behind an invisible layer of micro-protection that will stop corrosion before it can start. Since it is not oil based, almost all of the product can be removed with water alone.....except for the corrosion protectant, it is semi-permanently bonded directly to the metal....but it is 100% invisible.

The product is currently in the beta testing stage. I have some independent folks performing their own, unbiased tests on the experimental formula. I just tought I'd share some of my own tests in this thread similar to what I did with VERDI-GONE™. Any questions or comments are welcome here!

Here's a test I just completed. I took this coin and used the "rub on a soft cloth" soaked in VERDI-CARE™ method. This is typically how I've seen Coin Care used, i.e. apply product to cloth and rub the coin in a clockwise/counter-clockwise motion against the soaked cloth. The before is on the left and the after on the right.




How to remove verdigris from coins? > VERDI-CARE™

Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
Edited by BadThad
07/07/2010 2:08 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2557 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  7:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good job BT. Keep us posted on how it is going. By the way you still selling Verdi-gone here on the forum or do we have to get it from Wizard now? And are there any plans to make your product line a mainstream item that can be purchased at coin shows and coin shops?
Pay your taxes! 12 million illegal immigrants are depending on it.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."
Thomas Jefferson

Oldest Circulation Find ----- 1897S Barber quarter
Oldest Detector Find -------- 1803 Large cent


Valued Member
United States
323 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add needgames4lyfe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice job! I love this idea
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:02 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Tim!

All VERDI-GONE sales are through Wizard only. I prefer web-based sales and have no plans beyond that. Of course, Wizard, as the exclusive distributor and reseller, can sell in bulk to anybody that asks. If your shop doesn't have VERDI-GONE, it's their own fault. Ask for it by name!
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:18 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just tested on a red cent, exact same lighting and camera settings. Just rubbed for about 30 seconds with product on a towel. You can see the coin just looks better without having that oiled look I hate. Some of the "dry" look is greatly improved without being oil glossy. The patina is just slightly deeper looking to me. Before is on the left, after on the right.


Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
Edited by BadThad
03/28/2010 8:19 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:27 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a coin closer to RB, same everything as above:



Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:39 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just tested on a Jefferson, remember, this product is for ALL coins and metals. I noticed while I was putting the pictures together some loose, black debris was removed from the cheek....and I wasn't even trying! This application took about 10 seconds:



Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
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2593 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:47 pm  Show Profile Check xshift's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Isn't rubbing bad .. causes hairlines? What would be the effect of just soaking the coin for a bit in your new solution?

Also.. what would be typical usage of this? (I've never used coin care so I don't know why it's used) Metal detecting finds? Ancients after cleaning up? (both? ) Is it just a protectant or a cleaner, too?
Our members sell on eBay! | And so do I

*Seeking coin images for the Coin Inscription Project at coinscriptions.com - please let me know if you can help!*
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  8:57 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm enjoying testing this product SO much more than VERDI-GONE. No waiting, instant results! This is an old Sunoco token, exact same lighting and conditions:



Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  9:08 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Isn't rubbing bad .. causes hairlines? What would be the effect of just soaking the coin for a bit in your new solution?

Also.. what would be typical usage of this? (I've never used coin care so I don't know why it's used) Metal detecting finds? Ancients after cleaning up? (both? ) Is it just a protectant or a cleaner, too?


Yes, in general rubbing a coin is bad. Nonetheless, that's how Coin Care is typically used. As long as there is sufficient lubrication, hairlines are not formed....at least I have yet to see them. Soaking is just fine too, it's one of the methods I'm including with the instructions. Since I'm just now starting testing, I have yet to try the soak method for removal of surface debris....I'll get to it eventually....I'm sure it will work well.

VERDI-CARE is intended to be used whenever Coin Care or mineral oil is typically used. It's a completely different type of technology, but the effects are similar and BETTER. Since VERDI-CARE is water based, it's easier to remove and it isn't near as glossy looking as oil on the coins surface. It imparts a deeper looking patina, but not as oily. It acts as a gentle cleaner, conditioner AND protectant. The protectant package is FAR superior to oil because it directly reacts with metal on a microscopic level forming a sem-permanent bond.

Thanks for the questions xshift....I love to answer questions!
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  9:12 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a Washington quarter as the next test dummy:



Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
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14426 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  10:06 pm  Show Profile Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good Thad! I'm in! Hey, would it do anything for this


johnny54321 - John Brawner, my eternal friend. You will be missed by your CCF Family.

CCF members sell on eBay!

vermontensium's coins for sale :p
ANA LM1214396 - Early big copper enthusiast.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  10:07 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, there's no putty in the product. LOL
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
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14426 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  10:08 pm  Show Profile Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Darn!
johnny54321 - John Brawner, my eternal friend. You will be missed by your CCF Family.

CCF members sell on eBay!

vermontensium's coins for sale :p
ANA LM1214396 - Early big copper enthusiast.
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2593 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  10:11 pm  Show Profile Check xshift's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I love to answer questions!


hehe.. and I'm glad you do

Here's a couple more..

What do you think the long-term effects of the microscopic level semi-permanent bond will be?

From how I understand it, toning/patina sort of has the same effect - makes a microscopic bond with the surface metal and ends up protecting the surface. If there is already toning or patina does it clean that off or does it bond with/through that?

What would be the effect of the protectant being applied to a coin that still has debris or corrosion on it?

What does semi-permanent mean - is there a way to reverse it?

Will we get to see before & after pics from your independent testers?

Our members sell on eBay! | And so do I

*Seeking coin images for the Coin Inscription Project at coinscriptions.com - please let me know if you can help!*
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11433 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2010  11:09 pm  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
hehe.. and I'm glad you do

Here's a couple more..

What do you think the long-term effects of the microscopic level semi-permanent bond will be?


I don't anticipate any negative effects based on the chemistry involved. That's why I, like the mint, chose this particular chemical.


Quote:
From how I understand it, toning/patina sort of has the same effect - makes a microscopic bond with the surface metal and ends up protecting the surface. If there is already toning or patina does it clean that off or does it bond with/through that? What would be the effect of the protectant being applied to a coin that still has debris or corrosion on it?


Excellent question! You are correct, any type of patina actually acts to protect the metal surface from new corrosive elements. If the patina is natural (reacted/bonded to the surface), it should not be affected in anyway with proper use of VERDI-CARE due to it's gentle nature. VERDI-CARE is designed to ONLY remove surface debris and is not a "deep down" to the surface cleaner. It contains no soaps, no detergents and no harsh chemicals.

The active protectant in VERDI-CARE is designed to ONLY react with metal. Just like with VERDI-GONE, if the active cannot get to metal, it cannot react with it. A strongly adhered organic surface residue, such as black mint specks, would prevent the active from reaching metal. If the surface debris is active corrosion, such as verdigris, the active may lightly combine with with metallic parts of it and offer some protection.

This is such a good question I'm going to study the chemisty of verdigris + active some. I admit, it didn't occur to me! LOL Remember, this is a beta product still.


Quote:
What does semi-permanent mean - is there a way to reverse it?


VERDI-CARE is a "two stage" surface protection system. The lower layer is highly reacted with the surface and tough to remove. The reaction can be reversed under strong enough conditions, for example, an acid dip. However, I cannot see any reason someone would want to do that because the lower active surface protection layer is incredibly thin (molecules thin)and benign. The upper layer protectant and conditioner may be mostly removed with water.


Quote:
Will we get to see before & after pics from your independent testers?


I sure hope so! Both are pretty well-known on the coin collector forums around the web. I might be looking for a couple more testers as the product develops.....keep your eyes open.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CARE™ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
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