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New Member

United States
5 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add molander to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just bought about 500 fake / counterfeit coins that include 7 Mace and 2 Candareens coins, Japanese Meiji, Indian (KG V, Vicoria rupees) among others. All coins pass the magnet test as a magnet will not stick so I assume they have silver in them. They pass the tissue test and the ring test. They all weigh about 20% less than what the real coin should but are either exact or very close to the diameter of the actual coin. Some very interesting ones. I wonder what the % of silver is in these coins? Would they be worth more melted down or sold individually on eBay

Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add remmy1100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterfeits that are not plainly labeled, can ruin a hobby. I would recommend keeping them off the bay.

Someone could buy them and try to resell as legit even if you state in you auction that they are counterfeit.

My 2 cents.
Valued Member
United States
425 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tornandfrayed75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say melt them, to get them out of the hobby.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15643 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure if true but I read somewhere that many of the fakes from China are made with pure or close to pure Silver. The reasoning is they are making coins that sell for much, much more than the Silver.
just carl
New Member
United States
5 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add molander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How do I determine what the silver content is? Where do I go to get them melted?
Valued Member
United States
376 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add big777bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any place that buys silver and gold.
New Member
United States
5 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add molander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I take them to someone who buys silver, how do they determine the actual content and purity of the silver?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3629 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Check Libertad's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How did you manage to buy FIVE HUNDRED without checking them for authenticity? 1-5, okay, you got burned, but 500?
New Member
United States
5 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2010  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add molander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought them at an auction from a store that was closing where I live and it specializes in Native American artifacts. I only paid $35 for all of them. I knew that they were fantasy and forgeries coins. They include coins from China, straights settlement, hong kong, netherlands, mexico and other countries. It is actually quite an interesting collection. I'm just not sure if I want to keep them or not.

I did find a way to check for silver content using my scale although it is not accurate enough to be sure of the percentage content. I do realize that some of these are probably white metal. I'd be happy to post more photos of them if anyone is interested in looking at them.
Valued Member
Greece
424 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  02:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These coins does not have any silver content.
All of them are made from cupro nickel.The Chinese sell them on eBay for 0.10$ so there is no way to have any silver content
Moderator
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Australia
12608 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  04:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, I strongly suspect that you will discover that none of them will contain any silver. Some fakes coming out of China are made of silver of the correct alloy, but those are the top-of-the-line products from their most skilled fakemasters. If they're all of the same quality as the one in the pic in the OP, these are not intended to fool knowledgeable collectors. These cheaper copies are usually made of mercury-washed brass or a lead-tin alloy that has a similar density to silver, and sell for $1 to $2 each at flea markets.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
12505 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My advice is now that you have them, mark them ALL in some way to identify them as forgerys, and keep them as a reference collection for yourself, never to be sold, unless they are sold as clearly marked forgerys. If you have a good reference collection of such coins, you have an important weapon with which you can defend yourself from deceivers who try to foist other such coins on you.

Obviously, it is a criminal action to sell them with the intention to deceive.
Pillar of the Community
Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thai-vic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About 500 coins for $35? And you know they're fake? I think you got a fantastic deal (about 7 cents each). As long as you don't try to sell them on as genuine. I've picked up a few counterfeits over the years, knowing they were and paying the appropriate price, as a personal teaching aid.

As many (more knowledgable) people on this forum will tell you it's all about hands on experience. Use this opportunity to learn about how to distinguish the real from the fake. I look forward to the future when you can pass on the knowledge that you gain from studying these fakes to up and coming numismatists.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12480 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
All coins pass the magnet test as a magnet will not stick so I assume they have silver in them.

Bad assumption. There are lots of metals and alloys that are silver colored and non-magnetic.


Quote:
They pass the tissue test and the ring test.

tissue test can be fooled by a thin silverplating.


Quote:
They all weigh about 20% less than what the real coin should but are either exact or very close to the diameter of the actual coin.

Same size but 20% light in weight should tell you it either isn't silver or is very very low grade silver. Silver is a heavy metal. Coppernickel is about 20% lighter in weight than silver so a silver plated copper nickel is a distinct possibility.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
1527 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 all those coins must be marked "copy" before they are sold in the United States or you are breaking the law.
"Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.

(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY".



(b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, non-deceptively, & in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations:

(1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language.

(2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.

(3) An imitation numismatic item of incusable material shall be incused with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction, and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or to one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.

(4) An imitation numismatic item composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction."
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
-Mark Twain
Bedrock of the Community
United States
15643 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2010  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
According to the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 all those coins must be marked "copy" before they are sold in the United States or you are breaking the law.

So lets see now.
Drinking and driving an auto is against the law.
Murdering someone is agains the law.
Robbing a store, bank, gas station, etc is against the law.
Even Jay walking in many places is against the law.
If none of these are well inforced, not many of the Coin Police are out there looking for faked coins that do not say COPY either.
The main thing here is just who is going to go over to China or other countries that make coins without a notation saying COPY and arrest them?
just carl
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