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ASE Pricing Difference

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United States
28 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  6:07 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add farknarker to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

What would make the difference in pricing between two identical (to me as a newbie) American Silver Eagle coins? Same year, same mint. I didn't buy either of these coins but the first one is a 1987 ASE still in the original packaging from the mint with the certificate of authenticity selling for $37.99. The 2nd one, selling for $1149.95 is not in the original mint packaging but has been slabbed and graded 1987-S Proof $1 American Silver Eagle NGC PF70 PF-70 UC. It's not marked as a first strike.

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United States
14452 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  6:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well one is graded and the other isn't. The one in the OGP may grade MS-69 (which would be a 30.00 coin or so) but the other was graded a perfect 70 which means it should have no marks at all post mint and be a full strike. 70 is the highest grade you can get and most all proof coins will grade at least 68 with most 69 but if it grades PF-70 it means its perfect in the eyes of the grader. A normal collector may never be able to tell the difference between the two and usually the ones that pays the premium for the PF-70 is working on a registry set where as they will have a Top Pop coin since there can't be any higher than 70 so they never have to worry about anyone having a higher graded coin for that particular spot.
Quote:
It's not marked as a first strike.
first strike is just a marketing ploy created by the Third Party Graders, there is nothing special about First Strike coins than any other coin that isn't marked as First strike, except for the date that the coin was shipped to the customer. Every once of that series may have already been minted before the first coin has shipped and you may get sent the very last one struck and if it was sent to you within the 30 days(I think it is) of the day they went on sale then it qualifies as first strike. The mint has a article about this ploy on their website here http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?act...#firstStrike
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759 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, $37.99 is a good price for any proof silver eagle in original packaging. Second, the 1987-S proof is fairly rare in PF70 (perfect) grade. PCGS has only certified 101 as PR70, out of 6053 certified. NGC grade 70 coins usually sell for less than PCGS ones and the PCGS price guide lists $4000 for the 1987-S PR70 (full retail price in a PCGS slab), but even $1150 may be a little high. The chance of a uncertified coin coming in at PR70 is slim to none for 1987 coins, if anyone who has handled it over teh years thought it might be perfect, it would have been slabbed. PCGS lists the 1987-S in PR69 at $65 and $42 in any grade below that. Most likely the uncertified coin is a PR69 but it could be PR67 or PR68 also.
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United States
28 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  8:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add farknarker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. That clears it up a bit for me. What was confusing is I was assuming ALL proof ASE coins issued by the mint were of the same grade, i.e. perfect--PR70. To me, that brings up the question of what makes the difference if it's still encapsulated in the OGP. Can't be handling/exposure by whoever happens to own the coin since the coin itself hasn't been physically touched. Must be the mint. Not necessarily something they are doing wrong but something they are doing "different" for the ones that qualify for the PR70. Or is it just something inherent in the minting process that no one has any control over?

I'm not sure why, but another assumption I was wrongly making (given your responses) is that NGC was the be-all end-all, top dog when it came to coin grading. Apparently the grading standards of PCGS must be quite a bit higher.

I only own one single proof coin in the OGP with COA and I haven't tried to remove it, nor will I but if I suspected it might be a PR70 (Don't have the expertise) and submitted it for grading, would that process involve removing it and possibly devaluing it by its removal? Would I have a lesser valued coin if it didn't meet PR70 standards?
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759 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2010  9:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, you don't have to remove the coin from its capsule to have it graded. You can send the coin in the capsule to the TPG. PCGS is generally considered top dog, but not by everyone and not by a huge margin in any case. It's pretty much PCGS & NGC, then ANACS & IGC, then everyone else. There are a few that are making a new rank between the last two lately. Coins in OGP are not at all all perfect. Most would grade MS or PF/PR69 with some percentage at 70 and some 68 or less. In the case of last year's Ultra High Relief Double Eagle, over half of the coins that were graded came in at MS70, but this is not the norm. It is just normal production tolerances that prevent higher percentages from being considered perfect. Also it is almost impossible to avoid some minute contact somewhere on the way to final packaging. Typically for mint numismatic releases maybe 10% will grade at 70. Sometimes it is less and sometimes it is more. In the marketplace, OGP coins typically sell for about the price of MS/PR69 coins or a little less. For some issues, they sell closer to MS/PR68 numbers.
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 Posted 11/25/2010  10:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add farknarker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This has been very helpful to me as a newbie. I had actually read an article earlier re the First Strike marketing ploy but what seems puzzling to me is, collectors are aware of it and yet still paying the premium (higher) prices for a coin noted as first strike. Not all collectors, obviously but the dealers seem to have a marketing ploy which is successful for them. Thanks again.
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