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1797 Draped Bust Dollar

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New Member

United States
6 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2011  12:01 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add mmmanx to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Hi,
I am new to collecting and am hoping someone can tell me if a 1797 Draped Bust Dollar was ever minted with 8 stars on the left and 7 stars on the right. I am being told they were produced at the beginning of 1797 before the coin was switched to include the 16th state with the 10x6 & 9x7 star versions. I need to know if the 8x7 star version is a possible fake.
Thanks:)

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United States
1596 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2011  12:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome aboard!

Checked Breen's encyclopedia on this one as it's a date I've neither owned nor studied. No such animal exists. They're either 10x6 or 9x7 1797's. Thus, in all probability, it's a fake ... Chinese counterfeit? Try weighing it. Is the edge lettered or reeded? If it's reeded, it's an obvious fake. You can also try the ring test.

New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2011  6:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mmmanx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the reply. This coin has the correct wording around the edge along with some marks between the unit. It weighs out to 26.96 grams. Frustrating it could be a fake. Very lovely coin. If the ring test is not too complicated to explain...would you mind explaining it to me.
Thanks again!
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14274 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2011  6:56 pm  Show Profile Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A picture would really help. The devices should be a dead giveaway.
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Dave - ANA LM1214396, C4, EAC
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United States
6 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2011  7:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mmmanx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


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 Posted 03/24/2011  7:51 pm  Show Profile Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on the obverse, it appears to be one of the many chinese fakes that are out there. Do you have a reverse picture?
johnny54321 - John Brawner, my eternal friend. You will be missed by your CCF Family.

CCF members sell on eBay!

vermontensium's coins for sale :p
Dave - ANA LM1214396, C4, EAC
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2011  8:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mmmanx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply




Sorry it would not let me upload the back earlier. What are you seeing on the front to made you believe it is chinese fake? Besides the 8 stars:) And thank you for your help with this. So frustrating!
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United States
9043 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2011  2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lettering on the reverse is completely wrong for a draped bust dollar.
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United States
1596 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2011  3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Conder. This copy does have a better look than many others I've seen. I'm surprised that the weight is correct. Does it have a sustained ring when balanced on the finger and struck on the rim with another coin? You can compare the ring with that which resonates from a Morgan or Peace dollar that's put to the same test.

I'm hard-pressed to specifically describe, put into words, what gives this item the telling look of a copy. The dull color and uniform flatness of the details suggest artificial wear to me. You could take it to a show, sit down with a dealer and compare it to one of his coins. I've found that most dealers are happy to help and get a chance to examine copies, themselves.
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2011  6:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mmmanx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I will take everyone's advice and send it in for verification. If a true fake I am going to head back to the auctioneer that sold it. Let him know it is illegal to sell counterfiet coins. With luck he will refund my money.
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 Posted 03/25/2011  11:33 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I need to know if the 8x7 star version is a possible fake.


No, it's not a "possible" fake, it's a definite fake. No need to waste the time or money having it "authenticated." There were only 7726 Dollars minted in 1797, by far the lowest of the series and requiring only two obverse dies. One was 10x6 stars, the second 9x7. That's all.

The 16th state, Tennessee, was admitted to the Union on 1 June, 1796. All 1796-dated silver dollars had been struck by that time, and the first 1797's were not struck until 28 February 1797, plenty of time to get the new star counts correct on fresh dies.
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 Posted 03/26/2011  08:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
No, it's not a "possible" fake, it's a definite fake. No need to waste the time or money having it "authenticated."


Exactly what Dave said...... There is absolutely nothing even close to being correct about either side of this coin..... 1797 is by far the rarest date for this type.... a genuine coin in such condition would not have sold for under $10K, (but probably a whole lot more).
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United States
1596 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2011  12:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a 1797 "Dollar" with 8x7 stars:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...%3AUS%3A1123

The winning bid was $8.16 + $4.00 shipping. However, the winner got four more Bust "Dollars" ... 1795, '96, '98 + '99 !! I wonder how many future questions these items may prompt for the CCF?
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 Posted 03/26/2011  12:45 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder how many future questions these items may prompt for the CCF?


Hopefully, hundreds. I'll answer this question as many times as it takes to make the counterfeiters go away because their audience knows not to patronize them. Of course, that's not going to happen, so the best we can hope is to get these questions from people who won an $8 auction rather than a $1000 one.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2011  1:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mmmanx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone. I actually bought this at an estate auction. Not eBay. I will be contacting the auctioneer this week.
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United States
1596 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2011  1:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Estate auctions are typically run as "caveat emptor" or let the buyer beware. There's rarely any guarantee of authenticity at such events. In addition, the auctioneer will likely add that he has no way of knowing if the particular item is the same one he sold.

Personally, I know of one auctioneer who sold fake Seated and Trade dollars for thousands at a gun auction. At the time, some nefarious individual was planting the fakes at various auctions in the region. I happened to preview the alleged "coins" the day prior to the auction. I spoke with the auctioneer, and he agreed to confirm my opinion. He proceeded with the auction. I later learned that a relative to a friend had spent over $3,000 on a few of the fakes. I volunteered to go to court with him if need be, but he never pursued the matter. My guess is that he was too embarrassed.
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