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Fake 1872 Mexican peso

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Valued Member

United States
159 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2011  9:52 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jarwulf to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I think I bought a fake mexican 1872 peso. I didn't buy more than one because I was suspicious of the low price and I think my first instinct was correct. I don't have a scale with me at the moment but the thing is magnetic. Is this enough of a confirmation?

Valued Member
United States
363 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2011  10:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add RealPeso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello jarwulf,

Yep, sounds like you bought a common modern chinese fake. The fake 1872 peso along with the 1882 Zs 8 Reales are commonly found online and also at flea markets across the U.S.

The "Balance" style Pesos were made of .9027 (90%) silver which will NOT stick to a magnet. As far as the weight on a real one is concerned it should be very close to 27.1 grams. Many of the modern chinese fakes are underweight.

Good thinking on not buying more!
Edited by RealPeso
04/24/2011 10:13 pm
Valued Member
United States
159 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2011  11:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jarwulf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are too kind. The reality of the situation was a bit less flattering for my character. I had previously passed on commercially packaged cheaper pesos for the same suspicions. However, this shamefully obvious red flag directly led to the purchase today. But I indeed only purchased one because I was suspicious of the rock-bottom price.

I'm not really sure what came over me though..maybe it was the fact that I had gotten authentic (AFAIK!) silver halves so easily a few days earlier) but after I walked away I started kicking myself and came really close to going back and purchasing another or maybe even the whole lot. The only reason I didn't was...well let's just say it wasn't out of fear of fakes..I continued to convince myself they were real on the drive back and I was all ready to go back at the first opportunity next week.

Anyway I continued to really dig into info on this coin online even though I was pretty much convinced it was real. Its pretty hard to find good resources. But finally after a few misleading starts I dug deep enough to conclude it was a fake.

Anyway this was an eyeopener for me. Not the fact that there are fake coins out there. I knew that well except for that brief period. But the window into my psyche. I guess it really is true..if it seems too good to be true...and watch out for greed from others and yourself.

Thankfully I've only wasted enough money to borderline claim I knew it was a gag. I'm going to invest in a scale, magnet, and ruler kit to carry with me from now on. Hopefully I've learned my lesson *END RANT*




Edited by jarwulf
04/25/2011 12:38 am
Valued Member
United States
363 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2011  10:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add RealPeso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't worry, I did the same thing myself back when I started collecting Mexican 8 Reales which were minted before and after the "balance" style Pesos that you thought you bought. I hate it because at first I am super excited to get a coin so cheap then that bad gut feeling comes over me as I start to realize that I might have been duped. I bought a modern chinese counterfeit back in the day becaue it was a "steal" and I got burnt.

Now when I come across them online I can't believe I actually fell for it because the design is really off but that's what happens when you don't do your research first.

Whatever you do don't give up on collecting Mexican coins, especially the republican issues like this and the 8 Reales. It will be challenging at times but it is very rewarding also and the best part is becuase they are "foreign" it IS possible get some good deals at coin shows and online, you just need to know a little key facts and your set.
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United States
159 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2011  11:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jarwulf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW what are they made of exactly? I know its probably something like mostly iron but I'm thinking of keeping it and I want to know if there is a way to completely rule out anything toxic. I know its pretty unlikely but I'd hate to end up getting lead or something crazy in a gag coin.
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United States
3163 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2011  1:54 pm  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jarwulf Welcome to the Dark World of Counterfeits.

Being the owner of thousands (intentionally) I am motivated by different objectives but the pursuit of information is one such motive.

The coin you have is likely nickel. Iron rusts and the color is bad, but nickel is magnetic and looks better. The range of forgery metals has only two that are magnetic.

But there are many forgeries - especially the older ones that can be toxic. Arsenic is often found in very early forgeries. That is why in the 1970s - the taste test was removed from the approved list of tests for forgeries. I can recall as a kid that the lick test was still used.

So wash your hands and if possible wear gloves when handling fakes - you never know with certainty what metals are present.
Edited by swamperbob
04/26/2011 1:57 pm
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  06:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Valeriano to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OH MY GOD jarwulf, I have that exact same coin you have; it has the same scratches and it sticks to magnets and all! That is so strange, do you live in LA? I got it there, from a guy on the street! Fortunately I paid 2 bucks for it! But I swear, it has the exact same scratches in the exact same locations it HAS to be the exact same one! I'll send you a picture if you don't believe me!
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United States
3163 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  11:47 am  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Valeriano The fact that your coin has the "same scratches" is not at all surprising to me. Both coins were made from the SAME MOLD and that mold was made from a single original coin. This is a great way to identify forgeries.

You have already figured out that no two coins will have the same damage pattern. Damage patterns are like fingerprints - no two are identical.

But your coin also lets you look at "exactly" what a cast scratch really looks like. If you have a 30X or higher microscope (100X is best for this exercise) look closely at the scratch itself. A real scratch shows directionality and small grooves from the impacting devise - the cast copy of a scratch will show graining identical to the rest of the coin based on the grain size of the matrix used to cast the mold. The newer finer grained plastics are making higher and higher power scopes necessary but THERE IS ALWAYS TEXTURE DIFFERENCE. A blow with a sharp iron object will leave a scratch with sides smoother than the surrounding areas because IRON is HARDER than silver.

So study the scratches on your coin then ADD A NEW ONE with a hardened steel tool and look at the difference in the two. It should be readily identifiable as to which is post cast.

Let us know what you see.
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  10:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Valeriano to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for replying, you are right the new scratch I made does look very different from the other, the textures looks completely different from each other. Also, thanks for replying, I sure learned a lot about coin forgery!
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United States
2120 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2011  01:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I just realized I bought a 1872 Peso a week ago in Phoenix.

I doesn't have the Marks mentioned, and its not Magnetic at all (as far as I can tell)

Other than by weight what other ways can I tell?

here is a link to a pic of mine.

http://i.imgur.com/b38tr.jpg

*Edit*

Figured out what I was doing wrong with my scale... Weighs in at 27.0g on the Dot.

I'm feeling a little better about this. :D
Edited by Namachieli
09/24/2011 01:55 am
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United States
3163 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2011  02:29 am  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ianmprice The pictures of your coin are definitely large enough. There are couple comments I can make about what I believe I am seeing.

First the odd color seems to be a chemically produced color - not really natural.

Second - the distance between the dentils and the actual edge of the coin seems too variable to be real.

I would like to see a couple close-ups of the edge reeding to see if it is applied correctly.

So far - I believe it may be a forgery.
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 Posted 09/24/2011  7:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The color looks a little different in hand.

Ill get pics of the reeding up shortly.
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 Posted 09/24/2011  7:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are two shots of the reeding and a different one better showing the actual color in hand.

Hopefully it looks ok, It not magnetic and weighs 27.0g

Warning- HiRes

http://i.imgur.com/PbQAo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OiNX2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oN083.jpg
Edited by Namachieli
09/24/2011 7:47 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3163 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2011  8:38 pm  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pictures came out fine.

On the first picture, I was very concerned that there may have been some edge filing. By this I mean the grinding of the "corners" of the coin to remove evidence of a ring die application of reeding. The reeds are a bit irregular as a result of wear so it is impossible to say conclusively whether or not a ring die was used.

The other edge shots look better but not perfect. I would closely examine the edge looking for evidence of grinding. I would also look at the faces of the reeds for similar evidence of mechanical abrasion.

The color in the last picture is much better so the chance of a recent chemical aging is not as likely. The die work on the final enlargement also looks good. This points to an original.

I would check the weight of the coin and SG to determine authenticity at this point.

In the past, I have emphasized that I use a preponderance of evidence approach. In this case, if the weight and SG are both correct I would see insufficient evidence present to reach a conclusion of forgery. I believe based on appearance only that you have a well worn Peso - likely an original possibly cleaned at one time.
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 Posted 09/25/2011  2:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that if it is real, it definitely had an old cleaning. Nothing abrasive, just dipped at one point.

It weighs out to 27.0g, and ill try doing a SG test.

As for edge filling, what should I look for? I'm assuming I should be seeing parallel abrasions if there was filling and smooth-random direction, light scratches if its honest wear?
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United States
3163 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2011  01:25 am  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I should be seeing parallel abrasions if there was filling and smooth-random direction, light scratches if its honest wear?


This is exactly correct
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