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1909 S VDB /with a Radial Die Break

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 Posted 08/01/2011  11:34 am Show Profile Check twohawks's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I picked this up a while back and I have found no mention of this type of break on this year and mint mark. Noel sent it in for grading for me, and the photo's do not show the luster due to the light.

I have seen this color cent graded before,but PCGS has it bagged as cleaned. A few questions that I have are.... 1st has anyone run across one like this with the reverse break/ crack? (Note without the plastic) it looks deeper. 2nd is based on color has anyone seen this color red before other then me?











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 Posted 08/01/2011  3:15 pm  Show Profile Check nlp coins's eBay Listings Check nlp coins's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add nlp coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cant believe you got the package already. Kudos for the USPS. I'm glad you posted this because I forgot to photo the crack myself. Noel
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 Posted 08/01/2011  5:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gilpo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No help from me on your question, but out of curiosity, what grade was assigned? That's a beauty.
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 Posted 08/01/2011  7:10 pm  Show Profile Check twohawks's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS Graded it as Genuine! "Cleaned was the code" I do think that they are wrong. That is the WHY? on color. I have seen a few that looked this color slabbed. The coin has full luster the photos are under a light that tends to hide that. But the light 5000 lum's shows all the detail.
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Edited by twohawks
08/01/2011 7:11 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2011  7:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lovely coin ... I'd be proud to own it.

David
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 Posted 08/01/2011  10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DavidZerbato to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do the pictures represent the color accurately? The color does seem off a bit, it's not the mint red you would expect, too golden. Perhaps dipped in the past and retoned a little.
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 Posted 08/01/2011  11:17 pm  Show Profile Check twohawks's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
David the photos color is way off and I can't seem to get the color to show right. I will try again in the AM with real sunlight. I have seen re-colored copper and this looks nothing like any I have seen. I have seen other years that look like it, just not on a 1909 S VDB. But I have never seen a die break as well on an 1909 S VDB, I have seen a 1909 S (NON VDB before).

Here is the best I can do. The photos do not show the luster that is there and the color is close



Never argue with an idiot..They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with Experience
Edited by twohawks
08/01/2011 11:28 pm
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 Posted 08/02/2011  08:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice high EF/AU maybe coin. It has some red and brown.
Depending on the percentage of red would need to be determined
in hand. Those cracks were pretty common back then. Most likely coin was rubbed a little clean along the way. Maybe from just normal handling. Who knows ? A blatant polishing etc. is pretty obvious on a lot of coins and also I still do believe that technically there are only a handful of coins that have not been cleaned in some form or manner. PCGS lately
has been all over the place with their grades etc. There should be one standard applied to all of the TPG's/grading services period. Why are some detailed graded and stated and some not ? I.E.: VG details cleaned. Or like your coin. No grade, no color just cleaned ? Jeesh. That's a nice coin by the way. Cleaned or not. I'd crack it out and start over.
But not with pcgs.
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 Posted 08/02/2011  08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see a coin that looks corroded and scrubbed. It doesn't look remotely natural.

With regard to the die crack - that's just what I would call it. I am unfamiliar with the term "radial die break".

A wee bit of minor semantics that needs to be addressed...if there is die metal missing completely, it's a die break. If all the metal is there but is "broken", it's a die crack. That's how I was taught to understand it way back in the dark ages.
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 Posted 08/02/2011  3:07 pm  Show Profile Check twohawks's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not have this as an XF in anyway. Here much better photos that show what the color is. I have always thought a re-colored cent has no luster as well.







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 Posted 08/02/2011  4:27 pm  Show Profile Check biokemist6's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fuzzy black areas/spots are typically attributed to a reaction with dip residue as opposed to carbon spots which are typically small, defined in size, and scattered. The bright brassy color is usually a good indicator of an older cleaning and last picture of the reverse also shows some hairlines. Still, it is in a nice high grade and is certainly better than what I own(a bunch of VDBs without an S...)
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