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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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United Kingdom
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 Posted 06/16/2022  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it time to move back? Not that I have anything for the 1130s...
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 Posted 06/16/2022  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I almost sold this coin, but had to cancel the deal because of the start of the war and unavailability to receive payment...

But now I can find a small positive even in this because I can show it here:)

A Quartaro from Republic of Genoa that according to Numista (N##8239;83165) could be minted between 1139 and 1339


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Russian Federation
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 Posted 06/16/2022  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome quartaro!

Here's mine, which looks to be probably in a better technical grade, though the photos (taken for ID, with a smartphone camera, in 2017) are horrible and don't show it very well...



Obverse: gryphon rampant right, +QVARTARO
Reverse: cross potent, +CVNRADVS
Numista 83165

[EDIT: fixed some minor typos]
Edited by january1may
06/16/2022 5:57 pm
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 Posted 06/16/2022  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes good call. I haven't been shepherding this thread lately so good to have some help keeping us moving!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 06/19/2022  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This bronze follaro of Sicily from the reign of Roger II is my earliest dated coin. It bears a date AH 533 (1138-1139). Spahr 62, Numista #324032.




Obv: Christ pantokraor. IC XC (Jesus Christ)
Rev: Inscription in 4 lines with date at bottom (By the order of Roger the Great, with God's help, struck in Messina 533)
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 Posted 06/19/2022  08:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This bronze follaro of Sicily from the reign of Roger II is my earliest dated coin. It bears a date AH 533 (1138-1139). Spahr 62, Numista #324032.


This type is on my long-term wishlist, though I didn't know they went as sharp as yours - especially in the date area!

AFAIK this is the oldest coin ever dated in what we would think of as Hindu-Arabic numerals (though of course the Western Kshatrapa dates were written in a non-positional predecessor of the Hindu-Arabic system).
I've seen a reference to "Dated Coins of Antiquity p. 12" that suggested it was perhaps the oldest in Europe (implying that there might have been older ones outside Europe?), but I've never managed to see what the relevant page actually says.
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 Posted 06/19/2022  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All of these are 1131-41 under King Bela II. I will show just one of each type. Some are anonymous but attributed to King Bela II.

Huszar 49,Unger 44,Rethy I-57,CAC Vol. I/13.1. This is one of 4 sigla varieties I have out of 23.






Huszar 50,Unger 43,Rethy I-69,CAC Vol. I/13.4. This is one of 6 sigla varieties I have out of 432.




Huszar 54,Unger 50,Rethy I-56,CAC Vol. I/13.8. It is the only sigla variety I have out of 55.




Anonymous Huszar 82,Unger 51,Rethy I-69,CAC Vol. II/18.3.1.1. This is one of 3 sigla varieties out of 81.




Anonymous Huszar 89,Unger 48,Rethy I-74,CAC Vol. II/18.5.1.1. This is one of 2 sigla varieties I have out of 72.




Anonymous Variation of Huszar 96,Unger 46,Rethy I-81,CAC Vol. II/18.10.1.2. This is the only sigla variety I have out of 9.



Anonymous variation of Huszar 97,Unger 49,Rethy I-84,CAC Vol. II/18.11.1.1. This is one of 4 sigla varieties I have out of 71.




Anonymous Huszar 99,Rethy I-87,CAC Vol. II/18.12. This is the only sigla variety I have out of 78.



Anonymous Huszar 100,Unger 52,Rethy I-88,CAC Vol. II/18.12.1.3. This is one of 4 sigla varieties I have out of 101.



Anonymous Huszar 102,Unger 53,CAC Vol. II/18.13.1.1. This is one of 45 sigla varieties I have out of 79.



Anonymous variation of Huszar 102 Unger 53,CAC Vol. II/18.13.1.2. This is the only sigla variety out of 17.




Anonymous Huszar 103,CAC Vol. II/18.13.1.2. This is one of 18 sigla varieties I have out of 42.













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 Posted 06/19/2022  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
AFAIK this is the oldest coin ever dated in what we would think of as Hindu-Arabic numerals (though of course the Western Kshatrapa dates were written in a non-positional predecessor of the Hindu-Arabic system).
I've seen a reference to "Dated Coins of Antiquity p. 12" that suggested it was perhaps the oldest in Europe


Thanks for those insights @j1m!
Two funny things about this acquisition two years ago.
For some reason, I think I got it at just one bid increment above the minimum, so it was quite reasonable for a good example of the type.
Second, I was mainly interested in the religious iconography and cultural duality (a Byzantine-looking Jesus on one side, and an Arabic script on the other), and didn't realize until I had in hand about the date.
Edited by tdziemia
06/19/2022 11:52 am
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 Posted 06/19/2022  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great additions to the thread today from the 1130s. Keep them coming!

"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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United Kingdom
460 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2022  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting about the dates. I suppose it depends on how loosely you define a 'date'. There are older coins that state 'year 1' of whatever regime it is, while Roman coins often have the number of times an emperor had been a consul, which gives you a year range.
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 Posted 06/19/2022  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An impressive array of 1130s coins!

France 1137-80, denier, Louis VII, minted in Bourges. Silver, 1.1 g, 19 mm. Duplessy 134, Lafaurie 145, Roberts 2394.



Obv: The king, wearing a crown.
Inscription: LVDOVICVS REX (King Louis).

Rev: Flowered latin cross (symbol used by Bourges).
Inscription: VRBS BITVRICA (City of Bourges).

Portraits were not common on French coins at this time, and while I find the somewhat naive style charming, I can also understand why the die cutters preferred more abstract designs.
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 Posted 06/19/2022  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I find the somewhat naive style charming


Yes with those wide eyes, he looks a bit like a scared pirate.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Valued Member
Hong Kong
141 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2022  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wandering Circle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 2 cash "Shaoxing Tongbao", Shaoxing era (1131-1162). Reign of Emperor Gaozong of the Southern Song Dynasty.


"They cannot conquer forever!" - Frodo Baggins
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 Posted 06/21/2022  10:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
France 1137-80, denier, Louis VII, minted in Paris. Silver, 0.9 g, 19 mm. Duplessy 146, Lafaurie 139, Roberts 2552.



Obv inscription: LVDOVICVS REX / FRA-NCO [NCO reversed] (Louis King of the Franks).

Rev inscription: PARISII CIVIS (City of Paris).
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 Posted 06/25/2022  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice pair of French coins!
My only other coin of this decade is a denar from the Kingdom of Poland that can be dated to 1138-1146, Kopicki 51, Numista#124234



Obv: Knight holding sword and shield
Rev: Bishop holding crozier and bible
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