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Yet Another TPG Discussion.sorry.

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
797 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2022  6:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Okay, I know this issue has been flogged beyond all recognition but bear with me. Over the past two years, I've accumulated a fair number of raw coins and intend to have some of them graded. There are a few that will go to PCGS because they are likely worth $2,000 or more, in two cases quite a lot more. The rest will either go to ICCS or CCCS and I'm trying to decide which.

Have any of you ever been influenced either in terms of price or straight up whether to buy as a result of the TPG holder that a coin was sitting in? Does it matter or should I just do what's easiest (probably ICCS as they're closer).
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Canada
10161 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2022  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a ton of threads on CCF on this exact topic. I suggest do a little searching and reading. Ultimately, it comes down to personal opinions and preferences.

The only thing I would say, is that my PCGS cutoff would be anything >$500, unless you know it is a problem coin (perhaps due to rarity) and are willing to accept that in a Canadian TPG holder.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Valued Member
Canada
152 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2022  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wallyb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If two coins of interest were similar in overall appearance I would buy PCGS slabbed over the other options every time. And, gladly pay more for slabbed over raw.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2397 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2022  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ICCS all the way for Canadian coins.

I will never buy inti the coin dealer narrative that PCGS is preferred for Canadian coins.

Flat out 'no way' for me.
Valued Member
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Levaril to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would also buy a PCGS slabbed coin over it's similarly graded ICCS counterpart 100 times out of 100, all things being roughly equal. I have more faith these days in the consistency of PCGS grading over ICCS grading for sure. Keep in mind that most of what I collect these days is 65 or higher. If it was mid grade stuff I'd be a little more ambivalent as I've seen some incredibly poorly graded PCGS VF/EF/AU over the years but I've also seen some obviously cleaned ICCS straight graded coins that I wouldn't want. I do prefer the hard slabs over the flips as well, especially for larger coins like halves and dollars. IMHO ICCS was more consistent when dad was at the helm too.

I have nothing in CCCS slabs at all so I can't comment on that.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1079 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2022  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What Levaril said.
Valued Member
Canada
152 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2022  07:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wallyb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find it interesting that many folks will claim that a TPG opinion doesn't factor into buyer decision. I would argue that in fact it often does, i.e.: no one wants to overpay for any coin. Underlying our decision is always good value for the money we part with and a TPG grade provides some security. After all there is always the possibility we may liquidate and a slabbed coin will almost always bring more, one of the big two TPG's will bring even more and opens up the market to a much wider audience south of the border. IMO.
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Canada
10161 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2022  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
+1 to what Levaril said.

And, I am not speaking on behalf of the "coin dealer narrative", I am a collector who chases down coins graded MS-65 and higher...

Expensive lessons were learned the hard way by yours truly, especially when swapping out my NFLD 1c collection from ICCS to PCGS.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
4234 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2022  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's really a moot point when discussing the ICCS vs PCGS or NGC
or any other service . Simply put , it comes down to knowing the CURRENT
Grading standards and differences of the Companies in question , the ability
to grade yourself and buying the coin not the plastic holder .
Pillar of the Community
United States
1079 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2022  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree, Jack. The standards of all of them have changed over time. A lot of dealers make their money from that ebb-and-flow and in turn, so do the grading companies. I have my stuff in PCGS holders, but many of them were once in original two-letter ICCS holders.
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Canada
152 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2022  07:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wallyb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"the ability
to grade yourself and buying the coin not the plastic holder ."
The two go together for me. Coin first, followed immediately thereafter by the holder. Especially for a more valuable piece. A TPG offers a little less risk and greater opportunity to sell down the road. Most collectors do not have the accumulated wisdom of a seasoned coin dealer.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
797 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2022  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks folks - sounds like I'm overthinking this!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2397 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2022  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me expand a bit.

The following applies to Canadian coins collected by Canadian citizens.

For high grade copper, then PCGS is much better.

High grade silver, ICCS is miles better than PCGS, mainly due to their differences in grading standards, so what results is a PCGS ms65 coin would grade an ms63 or ms64 at ICCS (most of the time).

Now, for our US citizens, then PCGS is miles better for you, regardless of the country, because nobody in the US gives a hoot about ICCS graded coins.
Edited by doubleeagle59
01/22/2022 4:27 pm
Valued Member
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2022  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Levaril to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For high grade copper, then PCGS is much better.

High grade silver, ICCS is miles better than PCGS, mainly due to their differences in grading standards, so what results is a PCGS ms65 coin would grade an ms63 or ms64 at ICCS (most of the time).


Try sending in 1908 specimens and see how they do. A 1908 ICCS SP65 anything will more than likely come back as SP63. PCGS picks some things to be really tough on for sure too.

My issue with ICCS is sometimes they grade really hard, but sometimes they don't. It's no longer consistent. PCGS seems to be to overall be more consistent in their application of the grade once you get up into high grade mint state and specimens.

NGC, on the other hand, seems to grade higher than anyone else, particularly in MS and PL. You get a 1957 PL in an NGC slab graded PL67 and I feel like 9 times out of 10 ICCS or PCGS would grade it PL66, at best. NGC doesn't do a good job of grading Canadian coins and I think a lot get send there because they grade them too high. Trying to exploit the difference in grading to make more money. I'm very wary of picking up NGC that I can't look at myself to determine grade.
Valued Member
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2022  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Levaril to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's an example for you.




1943 tombac nickel. NGC graded. What is the correct grade?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1079 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2022  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have two 1908 specimen cents graded SP-64 Red and SP-65 RB by PCGS. The 64 is tied for the top red pop at PCGS. The 65 is the sole 65 RB there and the only one they have ever graded above 64 in any color.

They came out of ICCS holders graded at SP-67 Red and SP-66 Red, respectively. So yeah, PCGS is tough on the Edward specimen cents.
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