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1921-S Morgan Dollar, Potential Zerbe?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 808Next Topic  
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 Posted 08/10/2022  10:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add raingoddessyume to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have joined the Morgan dollar collecting family with my very first purchase today. I've been reading all kinds of fantastic stuff on the internet concerning the near mythical Zerbe minted coins and how to identify the particular scratches through the U's in Unum so I included a close up of that scratch on mine.

Now I am realistic most of the time and highly doubt that I just won the lottery but mostly I just wanted to show off my super pretty coin for all of you.

*Geek Squeal*

Now I think she has exquisite detail for being 101 years old and gorgeous golden-ish looking hue. Now I know she has a few less desirable scratches when you zoom in on her face but again who wouldn't have a few wrinkles at her age!

The two Morgan M's on both front and back of the coin even visible to the naked eye and hey I have sifted through a fair number of pics of already mint graded slabbed coins and I feel like their M's don't quite pop out like mine do.

So without further ado please enjoy my pretty coin and please share your opinions on whether or not she might be worth the cost of getting her slabbed. Or whether you think she is a Zerbe or not

She was a very reasonable price and I wouldn't be opposed to slabbing her even if she is nothing but a plain old business strike just because her color is so pretty and I don't want it to degrade further.










Edited by raingoddessyume
08/11/2022 11:10 am
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 Posted 08/11/2022  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Was the coin encased at one time?The rim looks odd.http://www.vamworld.com/w/index.php...Search&go=Go
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 08/11/2022  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


to the CCF!
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 Posted 08/11/2022  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add raingoddessyume to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will have to be honest when I say I know absolutely nothing about this coin you guys. All I know is I found her in one of my favorite estate sale stores and that she had the correct weight. She was just sitting in the display case naked, not even in a baggy, cardboard or anything. She was the siren that called out to me and I know next to nothing about Morgan dollars except what I was trying to feverishly research on the spot in the store.

I am sure the clerks were annoyed with me. She only cost me 40 dollars because they said the person who inspected the coin when it came in the store said its was only an AU. Please tell I am not wrong about that at least. She might not be a super high mint state because of the scratches on her face and the field by her mouth but she is far too pretty for an AU status only. Especially when comparing to all the other AU worthy coins in the case.

And hey even if I am wrong about this coin this store has been known to get stuff wrong before. They can't even tell the difference between real and fake pearls most of the time. I have purchased so many pearls for rock bottom prices it feels like I am stealing but hey I pay the price they ask for. If knowledge is a crime then so be it.
Edited by raingoddessyume
08/11/2022 09:30 am
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 Posted 08/11/2022  08:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NY Islander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
vamworld.com is another great resource for detailed information regarding Morgans. Good luck.

PS: She is a real beauty!
Edited by NY Islander
08/11/2022 08:59 am
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 Posted 08/11/2022  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On this design, I always heard that the breast was one of the points for grading. So looking at one of the sites for great images, I noticed that they all had the Weak Breast Design on them. So that is normal for that design for that year.



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 Posted 08/11/2022  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So Coop,
You are saying that raingoddessyumes' coin is or is not a Zerbe?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 08/11/2022  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Didn't know a thing about Zerbe special strike coins.
Here's the link from CoinWorld because Momma taught me to share. https://coinweek.com/coins/coin-pro...%20in%201921.

Here is an excerpt from the Coinweek magazine article about the diagnostics:
"The accepted diagnostics of the Zerbe strikes are easily discerned with the naked eye: sharp squared denticles border the rim, flattened stars that distinctly rise above the fields, and bold lettering throughout. The coins also feature two diagonal lines that descend from the denticles to the E and S in STATES. Another line connects the tip of the top serif of C to the denticles on the right side of the coin."


And here's the PCGS link; https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin...-strike/7341
And RaingoddessYume I must say you have a very eloquent way of describing your coin. Thanks for your enthusiasm and sharing with us.

EDIT: The images at PCGS of a Zerbe Morgan dollar show a coin with NO mint mark So it doesn't look like your coin 1921S can be a Zerbe specimen.

The article at CoinWorld mentions them being minted from newly arrived dies to the San Francisco mint as a favor to Mr. Zerbe because of his disappointment in the Morgan dollars being minted again. It sounds like the coins must have been struck before the Mint Mark was applied!
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
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Edited by Petespockets55
08/11/2022 9:31 pm
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 Posted 08/11/2022  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The accepted diagnostics of the Zerbe strikes are easily discerned with the naked eye: sharp squared denticles border the rim, flattened stars that distinctly rise above the fields, and bold lettering throughout. The coins also feature two diagonal lines that descend from the denticles to the E and S in STATES. Another line connects the tip of the top serif of C to the denticles on the right side of the coin.


I do not know from where I have this quote, but it is the best ever I find for describing those coins.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silviosi, that quote was in the magazine article in the link. It was an interesting article.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh Yes?, Thanks, I will put a note of the origin in my information's. Manny I have are not with the origins, because at one time I took diff portions of what I read, put in the word document and this. thanks again.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About 11 years ago, was when I first got into coins and the Morgan dollar was what I first fell in love with. Still to this day, I think it is the best looking U.S. coin, as far as design. At the time, I think the Zerbe strikes were still looked at as being a viable thing but as time has went on, like many other things in the numismatist's world, this idea has changed, with more information coming to light. The top TPG's actually slabbed coins as being Zerbe's, both P and S mints but have backed off from doing that now. The best I can tell, from many things I have read, from multiple sites and threads, they were nothing more than hand picked coins, from early strikes and were definitely nicer than most but not a special strike for Zerbe.

I've added the details from PCGS, with highlighted areas. A person who I consider a reputable and very knowledgeable man, who is a member from another site I frequent, wrote this for PCGS. You can make your own decision on this.


-makecents-
Edited by -makecents-
08/11/2022 11:02 pm
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 Posted 08/12/2022  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add raingoddessyume to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know every person every person says their coin is special because they want to be the one who found the unicorn and I am certainly not an exception to that rule but I do want to point a couple of things out about my coin that might be ignored on the first glance and I am willing to go to the mat on this one. Maybe I will lose but all the better will I learn.

Her denticles are square and sharp as John1 pointed out that rim looked a little strange. I did little more research and it appears to look like what is called a wire rim on VAM sites. I would need to seek a true Morgan dollar experts opinion who could look at the coin in person.

My coins rosy-gold color is almost the same color as the picture provided by PCGS on the 65+ Zerbe that they feature right in the center but more than the color I wanted to point out another similarity that my coin has to the one in this picture is that if you look at the B in pluribus there is a little teeny metal booger near but not on the lower serif.

(Gross description I know but I am still learning the terminology so if someone has a better word to describe this popped up feature I am all ears.)

If anything this little hunk of metal is even more pronounced on my coin as it can be seen with the naked eye.

I still have so much to learn...
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 Posted 08/12/2022  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I still have so much to learn..

That is the thing about coin collecting, you can continue to learn forever!
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 Posted 08/12/2022  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
raingoddessyume, I'm sorry I did not take the time to congratulate you on your first Morgan dollar, as I already said, my favorite coin, by far.
-makecents-
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 Posted 08/12/2022  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did some research on the 1921-S Zerbe Morgan diagnostics and then made a Photoshop image of the areas where the "Lines" connect the ES and the C to the denticles. Each Zerbe coin I looked at had these lines.

Click on the picture for a larger image
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