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Chinese Coin Expert? 1911 Dragon Dollar; Genuine Or Fake

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 926Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  12:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add marbury518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have seen many fakes of these and they have been obvious. I am trying to find out if this 'got by me' or is genuine. Correct weight.....26g......


Bedrock of the Community
United States
47448 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Magnet test? tissue test?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
25461 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@mar, first please confirm that a strong magnet is not attracted to this piece. Assuming that is the case, I recommend you do a specific gravity test and post those results here. Also, if you don't mind me asking, can you please provide a little detail around the circumstances of this purchase? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add marbury518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is non magnetic and correct weight. I need an Empire and Republic specialist.

In terms of the circumstances; I purchased it in the UK at an antique fair. It was found amongst a pile of fake Crown size coins. Many obvious fake US dollars, double Eagles etc...my point is that I have seen these faked before and they are never very close to the original and like the other fakes on offer, look childlike. I have been buying Chinese Empire and Rep for over 15 years amongst my other interests.......so I really need someone known to me on the net and FB as Dragondollar......or other expert who could tell with a glance. I do not have that level of expertise.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1469 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A genuine coin is 39.25mm by 2.5mm, weighs 26.9 grams and is composed of silver.
I doubt yours is genuine or silver.
If you provide good quality pictures, I'll post some that I have of the same coin for comparison.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add marbury518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Scans, coin is non magnetic and is within the range.....post office scales may not be the best......26g approx......fakes of these usually just look ridiculous.




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United States
25461 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@mar, thx for the additional info. I strongly recommend you purchase a better scale if collecting these is a passion of yours. I'd still like to know what you get for specific gravity and that won't be possible without a more precise method of measure.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
United States
1469 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  6:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see the coin well enough to see it not being genuine.
It is true that some fakes look ridiculous.
Better fakes look pretty good in hand.
Yours just looks like the average fake.
Not great, not ridiculous.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add marbury518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well it was worth a shot......thanks.....
Pillar of the Community
United States
1469 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not so good with photos- still experimenting with cameras and lights.
This is a coin like yours and not bad looking- trying to tilt with fingers in the light as its quite shiny.
Two others can be posted if interested in seeing a couple having lesser quality.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  03:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add marbury518 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot tell my coin is fake by looking at the design.....but granted, I think it's just the overall appearance and the metal itself.....mine looks dry, washed out.....anyway only paid 1 for it....bought a hammered Charles 1st shilling off the same guy.....which will be flipped.....other coins arriving from Australia today.....1878S Trade dollar and a 1927 Chinese Memento dollar.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1469 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  04:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in the same boat, but with 8 Reales and old Pesos.
Experts here see them for what they are at a glance.
Not me- rare for me to notice anything wrong.
But with Chinese fakes, some are a sure bet if the photo is good enough.
I've collected and documented hundreds of them.
One typical weakness with yours is the beaded circle- see how they seem to vanish in some places like this:
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United States
1932 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  06:58 am  Show Profile   Check jdmern's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.fakes of these usually just look ridiculous.


There are many fantastic fakes on these and other dragon dollars. Not a genuine piece, and almost certainly, not silver
Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only way to truly tell is to do a specific gravity test:

EN3tlmQSUuI


or,

h_2vA1qO2fA


Though it could be actually made of silver and is just a counterfeit...the poor "dotting" could be indicative of a mold taken from a worn coin.

KK
Pillar of the Community
United States
1469 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2022  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The only way to truly tell is to do a specific gravity test:

I was interested in doing this as shown to compare results with the way I usually do it.
The SG number was off by only 1%
My method is costly and tedious.
I often don't bother with it because it is so tedious, and besides, SG really isn't needed very much at all for the bulk of the fakes I document.
The posted method is very quick, easy to do and because it gave me 99% accuracy, I'd give it a thumbs up.
It should be noted that the accuracy stated in this post was derived using larger coins.
When coins are tested that are much smaller, thinner and lighter, the error will likely be greater.
In our forum, the typical Chinese dollars come into question, so this method should be pretty good.
Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1259 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2022  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not look like a cast. If it is really silver(better S.G. or hitting sound) and the weight is 26.x (please provide a better weight), I would guess it is genuine.

Counterfeiters usually not use real silver to add cost to their business. Strokes of the Chinese characters looks ok and the design looks good.
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