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Morocco AH 1285 (1869 Ad) 4 Fallus I Think.

 
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 Posted 09/18/2022  2:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Looking for your thoughts on this coin that I picked up in the Kasbah in Tangier. Based on the size (28 mm), it looks like it would be a 4 Fallus; however, the weight is pretty low (7.9 g) compared with other similar coins I'm seeing on numista. Maybe this is just an underweight tourist fake? The originals seem to have been cast too. A magnet is not attracted to it and it appears to be some sort of copper alloy.

Also, with regard to the mint, I'm pretty sure that it reads Marrakesh, but would to have that confirmed or corrected. Thx for looking!


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/24/2022  07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bumping my thread hoping to get a little help with my questions. Thx for taking a look.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/24/2022  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a fake I agree, as to when it was made I guess we'll never know.
I've read somewhere about contemporary fakes of these so they do exist.
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 Posted 09/25/2022  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thx @andy for that input. I'll circle back to this thread if I discover anything substantive to add.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/25/2022  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rummaging on Zeno there are a few contemporary counterfeits of these;
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=68662
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 Posted 09/25/2022  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like to comment about coins without having at least some experience with them.
And I have none with the pictured coin.
It's just that some areas on the coin don't look right.
The lower part is unlike the upper part in that it resembles shabby parts of other coins I have worked with.
I enjoy collecting contemporary counterfeits, and some parts of Cayenne local imitations and parts of ancient Chinese Cash copies resemble what is pictured here.
Often times devices / details on areas of the coins do not look well made compared to authentic pieces.
Edited by Albert
09/25/2022 5:18 pm
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 Posted 09/25/2022  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah yes, it is good to stay in our swim lanes. That area on this coin is bent and so part of the star has been flattened and made wider, while another part has been broken. I suspect that when made this coin had complete and even sides. With that said, I don't have a good explanation for this being so underweight.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/25/2022  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Looking for your thoughts on this coin that I picked up in the Kasbah in Tangier.


So, I'm not gonna go Bogie on us here, but I can't resist going back to the 1970s, when my big brother took a side trip to Tangier on a student summer in Spain, and picked up a few coins at a flea market for his l'il bro back home. Three silver dirhams, one of which I still have.

All authentic.

But now we have a copper coin. There is always the question of why someone would fake a copper coin, but anyone familiar with 17th century Polish coins knows the answer to that: where there is opportunity, means, and profit the fake will occur.

With that background ....

These were cast coins made in circumstances where quality control was possibly not at the top of the priority list, yet this coin is a pretty good match: https://www.ma-shops.com/koci/item.php?id=51490

Sooo.....




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 Posted 09/25/2022  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool story @tdz! I highly recommend you make it down to Morocco some time if you are ever in Spain.

For me the low weight is the chief concern of these pieces.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/26/2022  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Weight of 7.5 - 8 g. is not unknown for this denomination:
https://www.ma-shops.com/cdma/item.php?id=81514
https://www.ma-shops.com/grazi/item.php?id=9308
https://www.ma-shops.com/cdma/item.php?id=652251

I was fortunate to be able to travel to Morocco with my family over the Christmas holidays in 2000 (which happened to coincide with Ramadan that year). It was a wonderful and eye-opening trip.
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 Posted 09/27/2022  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thx for this new information @tdz. At least one of those is described as a contemporary counterfeit. Clearly I need to keep digging into this!

"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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