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1913 Type 1 Buffalo You Vs PCGS

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 532Next Topic  
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 09/24/2022  09:48 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
i dont own this one but thought it would be interesting to test your buffalo grading skills. luster is full and unbroken



Edited by panzaldi
09/24/2022 09:49 am
Valued Member
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2022  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jerry Picker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's going on in front of the indian's eye?
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 Posted 09/24/2022  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good question. And how about in the field in front of his upper lip?
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 Posted 09/24/2022  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-64, interesting coin.
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United States
137 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2022  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglebub7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-63
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 Posted 09/24/2022  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to buck the trend here and say that this coin makes MS66.
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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 Posted 09/24/2022  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still unanswered: what's going on at the bridge of the nose?
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 Posted 09/24/2022  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not OP but looks like clashed dies to me
Above head, and left/right of the larger of the feathers, and possibly below the chin as well
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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 Posted 09/24/2022  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. Can anyone do an overlay?
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 Posted 09/24/2022  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglebub7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Overlay

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 Posted 09/24/2022  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that! I think @paralyse nails it on rear leg clash across the nose in particular. I'll say MS-64.
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 Posted 09/24/2022  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely a die clash! And a very strong one at that. This is one of the lesser seen clashes, but have found it more prominent on 1913 than other years (not sure why). It's is caused from the rear leg clash and is known as the "masked Indian" clash.

Significant obverse die polishing as well, noticeable in the fields in front of the nose. This one looks like it may also have a "broken nose" hiding under that die clash as well, caused by extensive die polishing. Heavy die polishing also seen in the fields below the jaw closer to the rim.

As far as grade, I see an easy MS65, possible MS66. Luster in the fields is very strong and satiny, seeing minimal to no post mint marks. There are some planchet marks noticeable in the high points of the Indians hair and buffalos front leg, typical, especially in worn dies and slight strike weakness such as this (majority being obverse Die Deterioration on this one).

Cool example to share! I would typically prefer and earlier die state, strongly stuck coin, but given the die clashes, this one is almost equally as Interesting!
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64 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2022  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1buff2many to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find it a bit harder to grade the higher MS ones with some scratches on the holder but certainly looks MS65 but could see a point each way depending on what's on the holder vs the nickel, very nice example. It looks like a die crack going through the L in LIBERTY and very good example of the "masked Indian" clash, I think Pope referred to this clash as the "Lone Ranger" as well.

I agree with Ty2020b they are not found too often but do seem to be a bit more seen in the 1913 date, and I think more so in Type 1. Not sure the exact reason but a couple possibilities come to mind as to why that might be the case. There are some more extreme/unusual clashes for the 1913 T1 types, their strikes are very good in most cases so they may have been struck with higher pressure causing a bigger, more noticeable clash when the planchet was missing. Another thought, I had wondered if the detailed fields for the T1 were deeper particularly under the buffalo's belly (so easier to be clashing surfaces) than in the redesigned T2 which smooth out the fields in addition to the bigger changes for the sunken in FIVE CENTS. Thanks for posting the example.
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 Posted 09/25/2022  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
paralyse and ty2020p got it. I thought this one would challenge most and backups my claim that these buffs are not easy to assess and that you cant just go by the standard grading markers. the glare from the photos didnt help here either


Edited by panzaldi
09/25/2022 3:36 pm
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 Posted 09/26/2022  02:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful Buffalo :)
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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