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Need Help To Identify This Tiny Coin

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 551Next Topic  
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Australia
581 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2022  12:02 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi, I got this on eBay, advertised as a hammered coin, crusades c.1200's
It is approx 14mm x 13mm, wafer thin and weighs 0.33 grams
It is fairly toasted, but still has a few discernable details, and I wondered


a. Is it a genuine coin of some description?
b. is it from the crusades or might it be old hungarian? or something else?
I am not a collector of ancients, but I may become one in the future and I would appreciate any comments you may have.

thanks tt
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Australia
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 Posted 09/30/2022  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Technically, it's "mediaeval", not "ancient".

My best guess is its' a copper kardez from Cilician Armenia - while not directly a "Crusader state", it is often classified along with them as the kingdom would not have existed without Crusader assistance.

I could be wrong, and it's actually from Hungary; both nations used the double-cross symbol. With this amount of corrosion, I can't be certain.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 09/30/2022  01:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Sap, as always thanks for the feedback.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Australia
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 Posted 09/30/2022  04:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And.....with this amount of corrosion, is there a way to halt it from progressing further?
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Australia
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 Posted 09/30/2022  07:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, "the damage is done". It doesn't look like active corrosion, more like an over-zealous cleaning. I can see the pitting from extreme corrosion removal, and that orange colour is typical of either ammonia or lye, both very effective at removing corrosion from copper. Now, maybe it had active corrosion before the cleaning, but it's clear now. Put it in an air-resistant container and it'll be no worse off than any other piece of copper.

The contagious "bronze disease" form of corrosion is pale green and powdery. If you ever notice that form on your coins, either this coin or any other, it's time for some over-zealous cleaning of your own.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 09/30/2022  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as I can tell, the design of the second (non-cross) side, with what appears to be a crown over the letter M, belongs to a 1380s Hungarian denar: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces34127.html

AFAIK Hungarian denars were not produced in copper, and there are only a few types of Hungarian copper coins, none of which look like this. It could have been a contemporary counterfeit, or a low-purity actual denar where the copper was brought to surface by the environmental damage and/or the cleaning.

Note that at 0.33 grams I can't rule out an obulus [https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces103304.html]. But I suspect it's probably more likely that this used to be a denar but lost some weight in the cleaning.
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 Posted 10/01/2022  04:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, "the damage is done".


Thanks again Sap, always appreciated.


Quote:
belongs to a 1380s Hungarian denar:


Looks pretty much like it when compared side by side.



Thanks for the information january1may
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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