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Is ICG A Reputable And Recognized Coin Grading Service?

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 Posted 12/16/2019  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
there is where grading the coin and not the slab comes into play. regardless of the TPG
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 Posted 12/16/2019  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The biggest advantage I've seen with ICG is that they slab ancients. Other than that, I actually prefer ANACS. PCGS and NGC market grade and I prefer techical grading. I just don't think that the rarity of a coin should affect the grade, though it would certainly affect the value.
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 Posted 12/16/2019  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I just don't think that the rarity of a coin should affect the grade, though it would certainly affect the value.




I also don't think toning should have an effect on the numeric grade.
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 Posted 12/17/2019  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ICG at one time was an extremely competitive service. When it first came out it's slabs were one of the ones to seek out due to their high grading standards. In later years, the public began to sour on them due to their taking on the mass grading of modern coins (and perceived generosity of giving out the lofty 70 grade), although their classic coin grading was overall still pretty good. They had some of the best graders and most knowledgeable in the business, including J.P. Martin (who I met a couple of times). I think J.P. stayed on with ANACS when ICG moved to Florida (there was a very odd company switch-over which I still don't understand exactly what happened; in my view the ICG office remained in Denver and renamed itself as ANACS and the ANACS office renamed itself as ICG and moved to Florida, but that's obviously not really what happened). I also was friends with one of the graders, Cameron Keifer, who unfortunately suffered a complete mental breakdown (due to a number of factors, none the least of which was dealing with financial challenges) and committed suicide at a very young age.

Today, I would possibly buy a coin in their slab, but I would scrutinize it carefully and know what I'm buying. I would guess they're still reputable and they're trying to be a contender in a very tight grading service market.
Specializing in 2-3-20 cent pieces and 19th Century Proofs
Did someone mention 3CN?
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13014 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2019  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The biggest advantage I've seen with ICG is that they slab ancients.


Currently ICG does 1600 to present which they all do (unless they've changed and didn't update their forms), the old ICG did ancients as well in the green label slab. ANACS and NGC do ancients as well, but NGC doesn't guarantee them to be authentic though Barry makes his best effort that they are.


Quote:
PCGS and NGC market grade and I prefer techical grading.


All the TPGs grade that way to their company standard. The market grading aspect of it is overblown in general though, it holds back just as many coins for being ugly if not more than the coins it helps for insane eye appeal.

The date and MM matters for all of them though as different machines and quality were produced in different places. It's not an issue anymore with ultramoderns.


Quote:
I also don't think toning should have an effect on the numeric grade.


It's impossible to remove it. It's part of eye appeal which is part of a grade.


Quote:
I think J.P. stayed on with ANACS when ICG moved to Florida (there was a very odd company switch-over which I still don't understand exactly what happened; in my view the ICG office remained in Denver and renamed itself as ANACS and the ANACS office renamed itself as ICG and moved to Florida, but that's obviously not really what happened).


That's basically what happened in terms of employees though I believe those locations are incorrect. They both got bought out and several of the ICG and ANACS staff basically switched companies. It wasn't a 100 percent switch obviously but there were several that did

Not to long after ICG actually ended up filing a lawsuit against ANACS for using their previous knowledge to win some grading contracts away from them. If I remember correctly ICG ended up getting a settlement out of it. There's a bunch of decisions on it if anyone wants to look them up.
SLATER NUMISMATICS LLC v. DRIVING FORCE LLC ANACS
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 Posted 12/22/2020  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uclabrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like this topic has been dead for about a year, but I just wanted to add my thoughts and get other opinions.

I've purchased several ICG-graded coins on eBay for a tiny fraction of what the PCGS price guide indicates for the purported grade. That already made me suspicious. However, I have recently come across a few examples of ICG-graded coins for sale on eBay that just make me cringe. The following is a prime example:





MS64?! Seriously?! Note the wear on the hairline and on the eagle's breast feathers. Even with my amateurish grading skills, I would give this coin no more than an AU55. Even if someone could argue a weak strike accounted for the lack of detail in the hairline and the breast feathers, I still can't fathom an MS64 grade for this particular coin. This makes me want to avoid ICG at all times. Overgraded is an understatement!
Edited by uclabrat
12/22/2020 01:10 am
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 Posted 12/22/2020  01:48 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This Morgan is absolutely MS, though 63 is more realistic
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
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United States
38477 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2020  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also,I do not use PCGS price guides because I do not think they are realistic. I use eBay sold values,Heratige Auctions sold prices and http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/fmv.shtml.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
565 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2020  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It really depends on the coin if I can get a nice looking example for the cost of a Grade under PCGS or NGC. I may bite . I have a few really nice Morgan's that are graded correctly . I have a really nice 1886 O VAM 1a graded Au-58 it is probably AU-55 but I paid 53 money I have a 1882 O over S graded AU-58 that is really a details coin or heavily bag marked so should down grade at the minimum . It's VAM 5 on the label but really it's a VAM 3 Eds and I paid 43.00 for it so it's worth more than that even details. ANACS is the most consistent. PCGS and NGC cost to much to grade unless it's a rare coin then it's worth it since they command higher costs . I look for anacs coins when I can for my collection
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 Posted 12/22/2020  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ICG has its usefulness. Like most TPGs, they do well with authentication. I've snagged several badly undergraded Buffs in ICG slabs. They do fairly well with AG-VF coins. They really struggle with sliders. They are great if you enjoy dumpster-diving for varieties and undergraded coins in dealer bulk junk boxes. JMHO.
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 Posted 12/24/2020  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uclabrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another. I simply can't agree that these Morgans are MS. Maybe I'm just picky, but for me, no breast feathers = no MS. I guess I have a few things to learn about weak strikes with Morgans.



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 Posted 12/24/2020  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Maybe I'm just picky, but for me, no breast feathers = no MS. I guess I have a few things to learn about weak strikes with Morgans.


Yeah, that has nothing to do with the grade in a lot of cases. Is it an indicator in some circumstances that it can indicate circulation? Yes. Is it gospel? No.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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3846 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2020  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ucla , that 1883 O coin is definitely Mint State , a lock MS63 .
You will need to brush up on wear versus strike .
It is a real learning curve . You need to learn the characteristics
of certain coins , Morgan's being a great example .
You will never find an 1883O that is going to look like an 81S .
As to ICG coins , if you stick to the mantra of Buy the Coin
Not the Holder , you can win big time by searching and learning
how to grade to current standards .
Edited by Pacificoin
12/24/2020 7:57 pm
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21 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2020  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uclabrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to everyone for their input. It's already hard to judge grade from photos (for me at least), and this adds another layer of challenge. I always buy the coin, not the holder, as suggested, so I guess I'm at least doing something right!

Just bought an 1836 half dollar graded G06 by ICG that I'm convinced is actually somewhere around VG10 or F12, so I'll see whether I come out ahead on this one.
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 Posted 12/26/2020  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add suipakpaikungfu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could live with the assigned grades on both of the ICG slabs.
As Pacific said, the strike varies greatly between mints. It's
hard to find a nicely struck O or P mint, easy to find an S or CC.
Most 21 Morgans have flat strikes.
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