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New And Improved ICCS Website

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Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have done fair amount of research on large cent specimen coins. There are quite a few listed in the last ICCS pop report (years ago). I would submit that almost all (not quite all) of those are now in PCGS holders. Go figure.

i.e. the ICCS pop reports on these specimens are complete BS.
Edited by bosox
09/21/2020 09:01 am
Valued Member
Canada
433 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bosox - perhaps as regards specimens grade large cents but that's a small fraction of what people consider to be collectable. Once you go down the food chain to things that aren't going to sell for >$300 there's relatively little point sending them to PCGS for a $65 (USD) grading. Lots of coins are still going to ICCS and a great many coins that were graded by ICCS prior to 2016 are still in ICCS holders. I'm not defending their grading (or holder) one way or the other - but I have no doubt that their data could be part of an informed person's approach to collecting.
Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would submit that much of the dealer inventory goes to ICCS, or has previously gone to ICCS, because of the cheap grading fees and no customs. Hence, I think there is a huge inventory of ICCS coins out there.

We can debate the quality of that grading. I can only express my personal opinion on the large cents. A large percentage (I would estimate it at 80%) of accurately graded 65 & 66 large cents now reside in PCGS holders.

PCGS tends to over-grade circulated Canadian cents. So does ICCS these days, plus ICCS grades many problem coins.
Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P. S. because of exodus of decent coins from ICCS thru crossovers, I think the ICCS pop reports for lower grades are also odoriferous. Dealers keep ICCS alive, not collectors.
Edited by bosox
09/21/2020 09:49 am
Valued Member
Canada
433 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bosox - not disagreeing with you on account of I don't know all that much about that particular slice of things.

The problem of over-grading is, at least in part, one of the ironic off-shoots of competition. They're not only competing on the basis of how good their grading is, they're competing for $$$$$. The way to get more of those things is by giving people what they want!

I mean, there's more nuance to it than that but that's got to be part of the equation. One argument that's been put to me recently (by a very well-respected Canadian coin guy who most people here would know at least by reputation) is that PCGS will capture all of the market because everyone buys PCGS-graded coins. ICCS's market grows steadily narrower....many people shop for under-graded ICCS coins that they can ten ship off to PCGS.

So, there's a 'follow the money' argument to this thing as well.
Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does it surprise you that knowledgeable collectors look for undervalued coins, or that anybody in the numismatic industry follows the money?
Valued Member
Canada
433 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of course not! Just saying that the disparities between graders are due to more than just their inherent quality-of-service.
Valued Member
Canada
433 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's interesting - there's got to be a point when an over-graded coin becomes an albatross. I'm sure we've all see over graded coins in PCGS holders sitting still on eBay for months while people pass their inflater prices by...
Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That happens with holders from all the grading services, once you eliminate those people buy on blind faith.
Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look, I am not trying to be argumentative, I have bought coins graded by all the major services. Many were accurately graded, many were not. It all comes down to two well-repeated mantras - "buy the coin, not the holder", and "learn to grade yourself."
Valued Member
Canada
433 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh yes, no problem. I enjoy a good debate and I learn from all of these exchanges. I've really only been collecting seriously for about 2 years now - unless you include my awesome AG3 - VG8 Canadian penny collection accumulated circa 1975.80 - all of which was polished to a fine sheen with hideous, abrasive cleansers that my mother kept under the kitchen sink. Anyway while I've come a long way, I'm always curious to hear what knowledgable people have to say and I have zero .objection to push back.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1626 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with earlier comments about grading companies they all make mistakes like our selves as we are all human. So preference is within ourselves when it comes to a choice who we will use as a grading company.

I used ICCS for years as my grading Company of choice they make mistakes lots, under grade in certain area's over grade in others. The thing that really bothered me was that they graded cleaned coins as normal with no mention of the coin being altered this turned me off with them. Plus other thing I got tired of their soft flips very little protection for coins, no hard slab available.

I changed to PCGS for my preferred grading Company they have the hard slabs to protect your coins that I really like, the True View photo with high resolution of your coins I love, the Registry Sets are fun to be involved with for collectors, and the recognition throughout the World as being one of the best or one of the best 2 grading Company's in the World today.

Both Companies grade differently I think PCGS grades with more accuracy taking in more detail of your coin colour, rim nicks, scratches, cleaned, enviro damage, eye appeal just a few things that make them my preferred grader where ICCS mentions none of these things on your flip.

Grading coins is something that everyone has an opinion on it can get heated between a couple of people at times. Kind of like religion and politics can lead to an argument, but all depends on how you grade coins like ICCS or like PCGS. I just think PCGS is better at it although more cost than other grading Companies.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3189 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2020  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Check silverwolf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
in the end certain coins need to be in certain holders.. some canadian coins, in PCGS coins, won't sell near trends, put the same coin in an ICCS holder and it will sell.. and same goes the other way.. I Have seen many canadian coins in PCGS and NGC coins over graded, so this is something we could argue about forever, the point I am trying to make is some coins need to be in the proper holder regardless of grade.. because there are people who will only buy it in a certain holder..
Pillar of the Community
Canada
553 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2020  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tamarin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hate hard slabs. The intimacy that makes collecting fun is eradicated. Soft flips when new can be tolerable but with time and handling the lightest scuff becomes a barrier for eye contact and appreciation. Yes, I'm a big supporter of raw coins. With that said, if you want to sell high end coins at respectable prices you'll have to consign to a TPG in which you have confidence.
Valued Member
Canada
433 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2020  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know what you mean - I guess I see it as important for the super-rare coins.... protection from the elements and that sort of thing. Every time I take something out of a 2x2 flip I'm terrified that I'll scratch it on one of the staples.....
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