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You Vs. PCGS: 1942 Tombac 5c

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 23 / Views: 1,234Next Topic Page 2 of 2
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Canada
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 Posted 10/07/2020  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TVC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pacificoin: Thank you for catching my very likely error, I edited my previous reply accordingly.
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 Posted 10/07/2020  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Check silverwolf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just asking, if you had a ms-66 grade, why did you choose to submit to PCGS?
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 Posted 10/07/2020  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TVC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your question silverwolf! I began building a registry-quality type set last year, so I decided to move some of my ICCS-graded coins over to PCGS. As many of us have likely seen, many of the highest-quality coins have been slowly making their way over to PCGS. My other big reason for doing so was security; I prefer a hard slab over a flip to protect the coin. And as you can see from the result, grading is quite subjective! I'm considering a reconsideration from PCGS, but either way I know that this coin is extremely nice, and won't be leaving my collection anytime soon.
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 Posted 10/07/2020  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Check silverwolf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
did you cut it out and resubmit, or did you send it in the original holder,, I would think if the later, you would only ask for it , if it graded equal..
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 Posted 10/08/2020  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The issue you are seeing here is the result of two different grading styles. I wrestle with this exact same issue with business strike nickel dollars from the early years.

ICCS grades and puts the most grading weight on the coin surfaces, particularly the fields. They often ignore the quality of the strike and the eye-appeal.

PCGS puts less weight on the fields and more weight on contact marks on the devices. In this case, the grading of the devices includes the strike. Weaker strikes are often penalized quite harshly by PCGS (e.g., try getting a 1971 nickel dollar in a MS-65 grade).Sometimes, eye-appeal can help negate that penalty, but in this case, the butt of the beaver and King's hair speak of a weaker strike, and the toning does not lend itself to the "eye-appeal" bonus.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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4751 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2020  05:46 am  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sent this coin in on behalf of the OP and I can attest to the coin's quality..my grade opinion was MS66/67. Much like the 1943 specimen duo I posted, this coin originated as part of a pair purchased for the war effort... although I am perplexed as to why the mint was selling circulation strikes instead of specimens in this specific instance. It has an equally nice sister coin and is lacquered, and was found in an estate along with a specimen 1943 pair. An absolute monster of a coin, even the trueviews do not do it justice!
feel free to call me Will. I'm a 20 year old collector from the GTA area of Ontario.

my PMs are always open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk!
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 Posted 10/09/2020  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The person responsible for starting the Registry set was a pure money making genius.

Sorry for the downer opinion, but I think it's a waste of time and especially money.
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/09/2020 9:38 pm
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 Posted 10/09/2020  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Was it submitted with the specimen coins? Maybe the graders were influenced by such strong strikes, if they saw this coin after the specimens?

Lastly, to err is human. You can always resubmit it, and ask for a regrade... or, wait until coin shows are a reality again and get the opinion of someone like Sandy Campbell.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 10/10/2020  01:35 am  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes SPP, the coin was sent in along with the specimens..it's actually not a bad strike at all..it's quite full and off of fresh satiny dies. I think the mix of head on lighting and intense bright yellow, along with reflection from the coin's lacquer could have caused the treuviews to make the coin look a bit less detailed than it really is. Here are some in hand shots of the coin..it is in my possession til TVC picks it up tomorrow.





feel free to call me Will. I'm a 20 year old collector from the GTA area of Ontario.

my PMs are always open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk!
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Canada
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 Posted 10/11/2020  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TVC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you to everyone for your inputs! Really pleased to see that this has generated so much discussion.

SPP-Ottawa: Thank you for your in-depth replies, I learned some good lessons from you.
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 Posted 10/11/2020  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TVC - definitely show that one to Sandy Campbell when life returns to normal, and coin shows are a reality again... it might be worth a "regrade submission".

That's exactly what I did with my 1950 1c..

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Valued Member
Canada
175 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2020  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dollar 1935 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It look really phenomenal, regardless of the opinion of PCGS.

''The weird colouring on this coin is due to a layer of mint lacquer. In fact, this coin looks very similar to a specimen issue, most notably the Belzberg/Mossman example in SP-66 that sold last year through Heritage. ''

Thats the first thing I tought when I saw the coin, the pattern look really similar. I found it really beautifull when the coin is tilted and the color is a bright orange, must be beautifull on a more satiny surface like your coin !
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 Posted 10/14/2020  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TVC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP-Ottawa: Great idea, I would love to get it resubmitted for a "fairer" grade next time around. I'm sure Sandy would know best. I hope your 1950 1c turned out as expected the second time.

Dollar 1935: Thank you! The colours are incredible. A bright orange colour gives way to a striking golden colour beneath it. It almost seems to glow softly with how pristine the surfaces are.
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 Posted 10/14/2020  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TVC - it did. This one was in an old (green label) PCGS MS-65Red holder. It just looked too nice, so I sought the opinion of Sandy and he said "send it back in the slab for a regrade". So I did, and at the same time, I opted for a Gold Shield upgrade. Pleased with the outcome, as it was well deserved.

https://www.PCGS.com/cert/39328391

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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New Member
Canada
10 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TVC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP-Ottawa: That is a beautiful coin; certainly one of the best KGVI cents I have ever seen. Especially so due to the bright red colour and complete absence of carbon spots. I'm glad it ended up being fairly graded in the end.
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