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A Dumbfounding Grade - 1921 Peace Dollar On Ebay

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 Posted 05/03/2021  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, what happened to the prices? Last summer, PCGS's price guide said like 350 for an MS(62) 1921 High Relief Peace dollar. Now it says 700?!! Is this just the 1921 Peace dollar going up on its 100th anniversary, or is something happening to the market as a whole?
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 Posted 05/03/2021  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How on earth did this get an Au 55 grade?


The grade is correct.

The 1921 Peace dollar was to be struck with coin pressure to enhance the high relief design. The additional pressure needed to strike the high relief design wore out the dies. The mint was under a deadline to complete the minting of the Peace dollar, and they did not have additional dies, so the coin press pressure was turned down.

This coin is the result of the worn dies and low coin press pressure. The flatness on the hair and ear area are a strike issue not wear. The same strike issue happened on the reverse with the eagle. When the TPG's grade a 1921 Peace dollar, they for the most part throw out the strike issue.
Edited by Slider23
05/04/2021 09:10 am
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 Posted 05/03/2021  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Incredible!

Thanks for explaining slider.
I can't digest the idea also how this got graded an AU, can't imagine what a VF look like from PCGS graders for this high relief.

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United States
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 Posted 05/03/2021  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also, what happened to the prices? Last summer, PCGS's price guide said like 350 for an MS(62) 1921 High Relief Peace dollar. Now it says 700?!! Is this just the 1921 Peace dollar going up on its 100th anniversary, or is something happening to the market as a whole?


Prices of Peace dollars, in particular the 1921, has gone up tremendously over the past couple of months. Blame it on the Centennial Morgan and Peace dollar Craze.

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 Posted 05/03/2021  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Slider23...
Quote:
This coin is the result of the worn dies and low coin press pressure.


i can understand this, however, it appears that TPG's in general deduct for weak strikes as its one of the key components of the assessment. so why isn't that the case here?
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 Posted 05/03/2021  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Prices of Peace dollars, in particular the 1921, has gone up tremendously over the past couple of months. Blame it on the Centennial Morgan and Peace dollar Craze.


Thanks, NumisEd. I once thought of upgrading my 62 to a 63 or 64, but I think I am happy with my 62 now. It's attractive enough, despite a smokey color. My 62 will suffice as a type coin :). Do you think the market will snap back?

ElmerFlick: After reading this conversation, I now understand why this coin may actually "deserve" 55, but I would never buy it myself, and I would nominate it for the face of the "buy the coin, not the slab" campaign.
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 Posted 05/03/2021  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can understand this, however, it appears that TPG's in general deduct for weak strikes as its one of the key components of the assessment. so why isn't that the case here?


The strike issue for the 1921 Peace dollar was so pronounced through out the run of the 1921 that the TPG's gave the date a pass on strike for most grades. My guess is their grading of the Peace dollar came down to a financial and functional consideration. The following is typical of grades of the 1921 Peace dollars: MS67 do have a solid strike. Coins Graded MS66 and MS65 can have some weakness in strike. A MS64 and below can have a flat strike much like the OP AU55.

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 Posted 05/03/2021  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a hard time swallowing the weak strike theory. Yes there are striking issues with this date but there is also zero trace of mint luster. Even an XF coin should at least have traces of luster. I checked the PCGS registry and the label matches the grade but no picture to compare it against. I think I am more inclined to suspect a swapped out coin as well.
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 Posted 05/03/2021  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think I am more inclined to suspect a swapped out coin as well.


have you ever opened one of these? I have no idea how someone can open one of these cases without pretty much destroying it or at least you would be able to see something on the case suggesting that it occurred.
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 Posted 05/03/2021  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't pay AU-55 money for that example. AU-50 at most and that would be pushing it. Horrible strike even for a 21 and no trace of residual luster.
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 Posted 05/03/2021  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElmerFlick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, thanks for the explanation with respect to the grade, but I still have a hard time buying it as well. If that's an AU, what does this raw one grade?




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 Posted 05/03/2021  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Panzaldi, Actually I had watched a video from a coin expert demonstrating that very thing and even he was surprised at how easy it was to open one without damaging the case. A few drops of super glue to put it back together, Voila! That is not to say that somebody closely inspecting wouldn't notice but lets not be so quick to dismiss this possibility.
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 Posted 05/03/2021  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the OP's coin, the design detail in the lower areas of relief still appear to be more worn than the stated slab grade indicates.

Upon reviewing another coin graded at MS-65, that is a known low pressure trial strike, the low level relief detail still shows up quite sharply, but the high points of the design have no detail at all.

I still find it difficult to grade OP's coin at AU-55.
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 Posted 05/04/2021  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Reedbeard08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting explanation, Slider - thank you for that. Assuming that holder hasn't been exchanged, maybe someone was just having a sleepy grading day...?
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 Posted 05/04/2021  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MisterT...I wasnt dismissing the possibility of a cracked out coin, I said "I have no idea how someone can open one of these cases without pretty much destroying it". I just never saw anyone that did it without destroying the case or at least leaving some type mark or something on the holder that would point to that.

Elmerflick - the second coin you posted has been cleaned. AU details which is sad as this looked like a decent example
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