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1881 - S Morgan Dollar, You Vs NGC

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 Posted 08/10/2021  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smoke1439 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to make sure we have all reasonable grades covered, I'll go with MS-64.
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 Posted 08/10/2021  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will say MS-63 though its hard to see whats toning and whats marks I will admit but I like it
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 Posted 08/10/2021  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Basing primarily on the reverse since I can't make out much through that obverse toning, I'll say MS65, but won't be surprised by MS64
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 Posted 08/11/2021  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to side with dave700x and say MS-63.
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 Posted 08/11/2021  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the 81(S) should be sharp and bold. this one is a tad weak around the ear and breast. the blotchy toning will drop it a notch for eye appeal. it appears that there are numerous scuffs, abrasions and some scratches under that toning but its impossible to tell for certain how much. MS63 maybe 64 but I cant see at 65
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 Posted 08/11/2021  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to go with MS-65
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 Posted 08/11/2021  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-64
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 Posted 08/11/2021  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely ms65rd!
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 Posted 08/12/2021  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TobyJ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It sold for $449, MS66.

The reason I posted it is because I was shocked it graded so high. Okay, the reverse looks great and I can see that it has unbroken lustre and no marks so I can give that an MS65 or even MS66 (I'm not a grading expert, just an NGC member). But I've had lots of 1881-S Morgans and the strikes are usually so crisp and clear, and shiny! the obverse strike here looks weak to me with weakness on the hair above the ear. I just can't fathom the lustre because of the toning. I don't like to collect coins like this, and I would have given this about an MS63 net grade so shows what I know.

Also, it got a green bean. Other than the toning, is there a reason for this?


Edited by TobyJ
08/12/2021 1:48 pm
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 Posted 08/12/2021  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe we are not seeing past the toning specs at the true surface that may be better even though toning usually hides stuff?
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 Posted 08/12/2021  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmmm yeah that's a head scratcher. If someone had posted that raw without hinting that it was in a holder and high grade I think we'd have seen some AU-58's. Much nicer in hand, perhaps. Luster probably shows better than in the photo where the obverse looks lifeless and weak for the date.
Edited by fenton
08/12/2021 7:27 pm
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 Posted 08/12/2021  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the adjusted picture I was using to grade the obverse.


Others likely will see this one differently, and with very good reasons, To me, when the color is stripped away, the image can be enlarged to distinguish between the toning and contact marks. The fields and devices are fairly clean. From a purely technical grading perspective, it's MS-65. A weak strike would be an adjustment to a technical grade, but shouldn't alter the initial assigned grade. Here, the strike is weak, but not out of the realm of a typical strike. IMHO, the strike would not be enough to drop-grade the technical grade.

The toning is one of those eye-of-the-beholder adjustments. I think the grader saw the toning as attractive, and nudged the final grade upward. I don't find it particularly attractive. To me, it looks blotchy. Toning will also continue over time, and this coin may not look anything like the pics 15-20 years down the road.

Would I pay 65 or 66 money for this one? No. But from a purely technical perspective, the grade is in the ballpark. Just not any ballpark I would want to play in.

Chalk this up to another of the zillion examples why slabbing hasn't created the sight-unseen market the TPGs bragged about way back in the day.
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 Posted 08/12/2021  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trying to grade this coin from the OP's pics is essentially a guessing game. No way to evaluate the surfaces.
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JasonKflo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow , I am glad I have my old ANACS Holder MS-64
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