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Satin Cents

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Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  11:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've had a lot of trouble seeing any real difference between satin finish and business strike cents. For all the world they looked exactly the same to me.

Well, undeterred I set out to make sure that I had both included in my Lincoln Cent set and just recently had assembled a full set of 2005 - 2010 satins and 2005 - 2010 business strike cents. I was ever so careful to make sure I didn't mix them up because, as I said, I couldn't see a difference.

I have all of my small cents arranged in four binders of Guardmaster pages. (Yes, I know but in over 25 years I am yet to see any damage to my coins resulting from their use. Besides I really like the flexibility they offer in setting up custom pages.)

Anyway, I needed to start a new binder and the US mint was kind enough to change the design of the cent so I had a good break point where to start the next binder. Once I set the first page up of the new album and populated it with the satins and business strikes something surprising happened. I could finally see the difference between the two.

Here's the entire page:



And here's a closer look:



The satins are clearly a bit more yellow and the regular strikes a bit more red. The proofs are, well, proofs.

It seems that now that the cents are all aligned in the page the consistent angle at which the light reflects off the coins lets the differences show clearly.

I'm still trying to get myself set up to take proper photos but I think these images tell the story pretty well. The colors are much as they are in real life. (Oh, and a tip of the hat to larsdog. His display of satins is amazing.)
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I noticed I got the labeling of the bottom row wrong. Funny thing, I didn't notice it until after I posted and looked at the photo. Well, it's been corrected.
New Member
United States
14 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gregstempfle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also use Gardmaster pages for all of my coin collections. What is the nature of the damage you refereed to that these pages can cause?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2305 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What are satins? I never heard of this before
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Quote:
I also use Gardmaster pages for all of my coin collections. What is the nature of the damage you refereed to that these pages can cause?

Back in the day Guardmaster pages were made by Harco. Back then they used PVC as an softening agent in the production of their plastic. PVC can damage coins, first by causing a hazing of the surface and then, as it builds up, casing the surface of the coin to turn green.

Some folks advocate dipping the coin in acetone to remove the hazing. The acetone is a solvent but is said to not damage coins as it does not act on metals. I'm not sure. I've tried it on a few dirty coins just to see the results and although I didn't notice any damage to the coin I wasn't convinced it did all that much to improve the appearance.

When the hazing turns green the surface of the coin is most likely damaged. the acetone should help remove the green residue but the damage is permanent.

There are many experts here that can better advise when it comes to these matters.

The general consensus here is that you should run, not walk, to get your coins into a Dansco album. I won't say they're wrong but I'm a contrarian on most things.
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87472 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking good, NJ Bob!


Quote:
Back then they used PVC as an softening agent in the production of their plastic
Not to split hairs, but it is plasticizers that are a softening agent added to PVC.

As far as I know, the PVC was gone long before the Harco name. I do not think you have anything to worry about.
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not to split hairs...


You can split hairs all you like, I actually appreciate it. I had though polyvinylcloride was an additive to plastics.
Edited by NJ Bob
02/11/2013 2:21 pm
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 Posted 02/11/2013  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No problem. Yes, PVC is type of plastic (#3 recycling code).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVC


Quote:
Polyvinyl chloride, commonly abbreviated PVC, is the third-most widely produced plastic, after polyethylene and polypropylene. PVC is used in construction because it is more effective than traditional materials such as copper, iron or wood in pipe and profile applications. It can be made softer and more flexible by the addition of plasticizers, the most widely used being phthalates. In this form, it is also used in clothing and upholstery, electrical cable insulation, inflatable products and many applications in which it replaces rubber.
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2013  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What are satins? I never heard of this before


Between 2005 and 2010 the US mint produced mint sets using a new process that was intended to enhance the look of the coins. They used a slightly higher coining force and special cleaning after stamping. The problem was the "satin" finish actually showed imperfections even more than the old brilliant finish.

This resulted in a variation, like proofs but not as nice, for these coins.

Pillar of the Community
United States
592 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larsdog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice, Bob! I like how you can see the difference between the two. billymac and I created separate albums ( http://goccf.com/t/140999&whichpage=1 ), so you can't see the coins side-by-side like you can in yours. Interesting that we are all working on this at the same time!
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

I've had a lot of trouble seeing any real difference between satin finish and business strike cents. For all the world they looked exactly the same to me.


I agree, the satin doesn't really come through to well on the cents like it does the other coins. I did really like the satin quarters though
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19337 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting and very nice presentation. Looks like something you would want to lay out at a coin show for presentation only. Really nice looking.
just carl
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United States
745 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Penny4Me to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
you should see a difference between 2009 satin finish and 2009 business strike cents.
only 2009 satin finish penny were made in 95% copper. These Cu cents will tone quicker too.
All other satin finish and business strike cents are Cu plated zinc.
Edited by Penny4Me
02/12/2013 9:11 pm
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 Posted 02/12/2013  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good! My only problem with those albums is after a while the coins kind of get stuck to the plastic. Removing them without scratching becomes problematic. Thats just my experience.
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everybody.

I have to admit that I was so excited that I could finally see the difference between satins and business strike cents that I couldn't resist starting this thread.

I'm not done yet, I still need to add a label at the top of the page. (I use a P-Touch printer.)

My next project is to do something similar with Jeffersons but I don't have all of the coins yet.

When it's ready I'll post pix.
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2013  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Looks good! My only problem with those albums is after a while the coins kind of get stuck to the plastic. Removing them without scratching becomes problematic. Thats just my experience.


I haven't had any problems with the coins sticking to the Guardmaster pages and, although I understand your point, I don't think there is any greater risk of damage to coins in Guardmaster pages than there would be to coins in a flip.

Also, putting coins into a Dansco type album has potential risks too. The clear slides can scratch the surface of coins.
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