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1902 Indian Head cent on Venezuelan (?) planchet  
 

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Pillar of the Community
United States
4893 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2013  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd love to hear what the experts say on it.


Me too! I hope it makes it to an XRF
.
Edited by amida17
07/09/2013 7:34 pm
Bedrock of the Community
10045 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2013  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first reaction was also acid-dipped. The wire rim and eroded shapes of letters point that to me.
New Member
United States
24 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2013  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RichH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some photos of my 1902 Indian Head cent compared with a 1903 Indian Head in the middle and a modern day Cent on the right. I did a web search but didn't find anything about the smaller thin 1902 planchet.





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United States
6495 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2013  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1902 on the left sure doesn't appear to be acid dipped or worn that much I'm saying a thin planchet. It would be a light or weak strike as the coin presses are set up for a certain tonnage of pressure (around 150-180 tons per inch of pressure, but worn down this much the weak strike has turned into just a worn looking cent. My guess is a legitimate mint error here.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
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 Posted 07/19/2013  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tonnage for striking cents is around 40 tons per square inch. Combine that with a much thinner planchet and your tonnage drops to under 20 tons. This would result in a very weak strike. With a strike that weak you should not have any of the peripheral legends present and especially not the rims as they are the last things to strike up. The only way to get this kind of detail on a planchet that thin would be to set the presses to a much higher striking pressure (maybe 60 tons for a planchet of this thickness. A thinner planchet means less metal to fill the dies so more pressure is needed.) But what happens when the next normal thickness planchet comes through? Instead of the normal 40 tons, or the reset 60 tons, because of the additional thickness that normal planchet gets hit with with 120 tons or so and things start breaking. No the press would have been set for the normal planchets and if one this thin came through it would show a very weak strike with no peripheral detail and no rims.
Gary Schmidt
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United States
2073 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2013  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldSkoolMadSkilz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it were acid dipped, with the amount of thinning, I'd expect some details to start to disappear, like the lower right of the C in CENT and the bars in the shield. Back then, did the press reverse with a limit switch or a pressure switch? If a limit switch, I'd expect a weak or almost non existent strike. If a pressure switch, I'd expect the strike to look pretty much the same.
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 Posted 07/19/2013  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm...I have a few acid-dipped coins. These coins lose a lot of thickness, while still retaining details--but they look thinner and eroded like the first pictures. I also suspect this one was dipped, then got circulated again--but send it to Rick Snow, he'll tell you for sure!
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 Posted 07/19/2013  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stazstaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On mine, I did send a message to Mr Snow, and it must be bad news, because he has not replied, it has been a week.
Still trying to find the XRF.
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 Posted 07/19/2013  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I once showed Rick Snow a coin which had extra metal scrap struck into it.
It looks exactly like gold under a loupe. He couldn't figure it out but if there is anyone that knows the series, it would be him.
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23514 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2013  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
On mine, I did send a message to Mr Snow, and it must be bad news, because he has not replied, it has been a week.


Keep in mind that, being who he is, Rick Snow lives in a constant deluge of requests for information. I sincerely doubt he has the physical time to answer every inquiry in addition to the rest of his life commitments.
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10045 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2013  01:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I once showed Rick Snow a coin which had extra metal scrap struck into it.
I remember that one--it sure looked like gold! I would sure be intrigued by a lab analysis.
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12437 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2013  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin screams chemical erosion to me, especially the thin to nonexistent rim and denticles which is one of the diagnostics for acidic treatment.
ANA R-3151318
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 Posted 07/23/2013  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stazstaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have one question, though: If it is acid erosion, why is the coin smaller (across) than a regular cent, but still has the rim?
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 Posted 07/23/2013  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of the rim has been dissolved which leaves you with a coin that has an undersized diameter.
ANA R-3151318
Valued Member
United States
309 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2013  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BluegrassRiver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Remember the Shrinky Dinks in the late 1960's? This is obviously from that box. Puzzle solved!
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