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Fake Ancients

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Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2021  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

An article on the history of fake ancients produced over the past few centuries: https://coinweek.com/ancient-coins/...cient-coins/

Colligo ergo sum
Pillar of the Community
United States
712 Posts
 Posted 12/12/2021  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Check captainrich's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add captainrich to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is y'all's opinion on the items listed by ebay seller Noah's Ark Auctions?

The seller seems to want potential customers to agree to certain terms before they bid.

"Answers To The Most Commonly Asked Questions Here: We don't have a metal tester. Silver is likely silver, Bronze & Copper too, if you do not digest that easily Please shop elsewhere. The word 'grade' is a hobby term; there is no hobby-talk in the Ark, we are not a coin store or hobbiers. If you do not correspond with us, or message about hobby terms, we may cancel the trade, it's all for charity here. Please know your hobby stuff if it's important to you, Global Climate God & Aliens are important to us.
The item/items pictured may be copper or made of stone tin brass silver clay iron pewter bronze rock nickel, anything. Some assets are relics others R antiques. The title of this listing may have/has errors because we don't know much about our assets OR your hobbies or our stamps medals skeleton keys statues antiques."

https://www.ebay.com/usr/noahs_ark_auctions/








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Australia
14256 Posts
 Posted 12/12/2021  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What is y'all's opinion on the items listed by ebay seller Noah's Ark Auctions?

I'm not clicking on their link, but if those images are an honest representative of their listings, then they're either wilfully ignorant that they are selling fakes, or being duplicitous. All four of those times are "supposed" to be be silver, when from the images they are clearly base-metal replicas.

Their "FAQ" about metals clearly indicates they are sick and tired of knowledgeable people asking them to verify what metal their "coins" are made of, since they seem to be made of the "wrong metal".

I don't know if the "coins" in question are correctly identified in the listings, but they purport to be silver coins of Syracuse, Athens, Ephesus and Larissa. I suspect they are actually "tourist fakes".

There are five different aliases for "Noah's Ark" in the FORVM NFSL, all apparently linked to the same seller. I assume this is another.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
New Member
United States
43 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2021  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chirrrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm just now getting into ancients and medieval coins after having done US forever. I can tell that there's a ton of information here, and I do plan on reading everything I can. Obviously that's going to take some time! I just have a general question: Are cheaper (under $10/ea) ancients and medieval coins frequently counterfeit? I don't plan on buying anything expensive any time soon, but I just hope there's some kind of middle ground between being totally ignorant on the subject and being so scared of getting taken advantage of that I need to get a PhD on the matter before buying a single coin!

Thanks
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Australia
14256 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2021  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are cheaper (under $10/ea) ancients and medieval coins frequently counterfeit?

Not really, no. But you will find that the "cheaper" ancient coins are often unidentifiable, or at least unattributable precisely to a specific emperor, mint-city or type. You can easily buy "late Roman bronzes" for $5 to $10 each, but you will likely end up with "culls" that everybody else hasn't been able to identify, or "slugs", coins that are so badly damaged and corroded that no-one will ever be able to identify them.

As a general rule, "cheap" and "mediaeval" don't go together; the mediaeval period (at least in Europe) was a time when few coins were being made, and most of those that were being made were made of silver. It may seem counter-intuitive to the modern coin collector, but "cheap" and "ancient" are much more compatible, as the Roman series, particularly the Late Roman period (around 250-400 AD), has an extensive issue of small, cheap bronze coins.

The other thing to watch for is mis-identified coins. There is a certain high-profile ancients dealer on eBay from England; some of his coins are outright fakes, but many are genuine but common coins which are mis-identified as rarer, more valuable coins (and you will certainly never find in his inventory a rare coin that's been mis-identified as common). But even regular, honest dealers can mis-identify things if they're not experts in the series. I've certainly seen some "howlers" in my time, from usually trustworthy dealers who have looked things up hastily on the internet, or were simply passing on the false information they've been told by the previous owner of the coin.

If you don't want to get "stung" with either fakes or slugs, spend a little extra money and buy coins from established, reputable dealers. FORVM ancient coins is a US-based ancients specialist I have bought from; here in Australia, Romanorum is my go-to guy for ancients. There are many others. The VCoins online marketplace is kind of like a "safer version of eBay" for ancient coins, safer in the extent that all sellers there are vetted and anyone found to be knowingly selling fakes, or committing other dubious practices, is booted off. I'd recommend newbies to ancient coins simply stay away from eBay entirely - there's far too many fakes, mis-identifications, and criminals selling looted/stolen coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2021  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are cheaper (under $10/ea) ancients and medieval coins frequently counterfeit?

Short answer: yes. Fortunately many such reproductions are (at least to the trained eye) obvious cast copies of rarities made up for the tourists that aren't particularly deceptive.

This genre is addressed here: https://www.realorrepro.com/article...ncient-coins

More insidious are reports of even common Roman bronzes now being made up. One ploy with these has been to cleverly mix them into large lots of genuine coins that are then wholesaled across the globe.

This latter type is detailed here: http://www.catbikes.ch/coinstuff/coins-fakes.htm

This is not meant to dissuade you from beginning to collect ancient coins, as real Roman bronzes for instance are inexpensive and plentiful, and can be readily purchased from reputable dealers.

Colligo ergo sum
Valued Member
United Kingdom
72 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2021  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gerio2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've just posted under ancient coins my request for help determining if a Judean prutah is a fake. Should I have posted it here instead?
Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2022  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

On the subject of modern forged Roman coins being mixed into large lots, an older article, but very specific and detailed, with excellent photographs:

http://www.fakeuncleanedcoins.com/

Colligo ergo sum
Valued Member
United Kingdom
72 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2022  04:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gerio2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
On the subject of modern forged Roman coins being mixed into large lots, an older article, but very specific and detailed, with excellent photographs:
Very helpful thanks!
Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2022  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

A detailed article on forged Constantine SPES PVBLIC types:

https://www.academia.edu/52618541/H...BLIC_coinage

Colligo ergo sum
Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2022  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quite an old article, but highly informative, considering that fakes long in the marketplace might acquire provenance, and thus no longer be recognized for what they truly are:

http://snible.org/coins/fakes/dodson.html

Colligo ergo sum
Valued Member
United Kingdom
72 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2022  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gerio2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not quite a fake but this seller has a nerve.

For sale as "Byzantine Basil II Class A2 Anonymous Follis *Contemporary imitation*" but then at a price of $82 (!)

The seller is in the Russian Federation and I looked up their other stock I looked up because another coin they were selling didn't look right.

They aren't on any lists.


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