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Black Patina

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New Member
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 Posted 10/22/2013  1:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Docbink to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Just wondering if anyone has seen a coin with this type of black patina(pictured by a normal coin in the same roll). It still has reflective mirrors, the reverse is normal(a little toning). I will have it graded (probably 63 or 64 max). But I am wondering what its true value is....any ideas?

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 Posted 10/22/2013  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The two coins listed in the picture are Morgan dollars.

Looks like it was dipped into chemicals or burned.

Edited by solotime
10/22/2013 2:36 pm
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 Posted 10/22/2013  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum Docbink.

The coin in question has toned due to exposure (something infused with sulfur). Some types of toning are desirable, some are not. This coin is in the latter category.

You forgot to mention the mintmark (if any) which would be necessary to ballpark the value. If it's not a CC, then the value for each in MS63 would be around $55-65.

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 Posted 10/22/2013  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

TRy posting the reverse. More than likely someone made it look like that on purpose.
just carl
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 Posted 10/22/2013  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Docbink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the reverse. These coins have been stored in a vault since the 1920's the coin in reference was on the top of a roll when they were moved from a bag to a roll around 1961. Our family has 50 rolls of the 1881-s. I have 15 rolls some were cracked down the side resulting in a similar coloring but none like this. Thanks for the help.

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 Posted 10/22/2013  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
TRy posting the reverse. More than likely someone made it look like that on purpose.


I have to tend to agree. The normal toning process, by the time it reached that shade, should have pretty much destroyed any luster. Exceptions have occurred, though.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Was there ever a house fire during their storage ?
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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 Posted 10/22/2013  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Docbink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, these were stored in a bank vault. I had a coin dealer look at it also. He hadn't seen one like it either. It is a natural toning and the obverse mirrors are still semi-proof like.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like exposure to either high sulphur content or heat or even both.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both the pretty colors and the black are the same chemical process, the difference is the thickness of the layer. The thinnest visible color is yellow, on through to black. By the time it gets black, it has little value - there's a 21 for sale on eBay right now (auction 310770474285) which is at 17.50 with 3h to go.


The change is irreversible, although some will advocate dipping to remove it, that process removes metal and so doesn't return the surface of the coin back to how it came from the mint.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Docbink to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks all. I had to go through so many Morgans lately, this one just stood out as really cool.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is possible to still have luster showing even with the black toning because the toning follows the same microscopic contours as the original silver. If you dip it and remove the black toning though it will take those contours with it and you will have a flat dead looking coin with no luster.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 10/22/2013  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FadeToBlack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like it's progressed to the point where it would be considered environmental damage.
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 Posted 10/22/2013  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

@Docbink, You should make a new thread with the Morgans you've found inside the rolls. (Just so we can drool)
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 Posted 10/22/2013  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not necessarily will a black coin lose the original mint luster....

This coin was black. This is not a good representation of the coin. I am still having trouble capturing mint luster. I need to experiment with other lighting methods.

Chance



Edited by Chancellor Sutler
10/22/2013 5:45 pm
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 Posted 10/22/2013  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I've seen toning like this and it is quite natural. Most likely from the obverse resting against the sulfur impregnated bag it was in for 80 years before it was put on top of the roll as you stated which further enhanced the black toning. Black is the natural color of silver sulfide. Don't dip it, it will result in a lackluster looking coin. As is, it is natural looking. I would have NO problem owning this coin and I personally like it!
Edited by 1893S
10/22/2013 6:40 pm
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