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Post Your Canadian Tokens

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Pillar of the Community
United States
536 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2021  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info guys, I like it when we can attribute these tokens properly.

Also, ainsivalavie, if you need to for your token book about these, you can gladly use my pics of this token if you want to, I don't mind at all...
Edited by mrwhatisit
06/20/2021 5:40 pm
Valued Member
Canada
167 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2021  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Check ainsivalavie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Mrwhatisit: Also, ainsivalavie, if you need to for your token book about these, you can gladly use my pics of this token if you want to, I don't mind at all...

I don't think it's going to be necessary, but I'll keep your offer in mind anyway. Thank you.
Sorry if my English is not perfect, I'm still learning...
Edited by ainsivalavie
06/20/2021 7:56 pm
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United States
103630 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2021  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is one of the nicest Montreal tokens I have seen, an 1842 penny.
Very nice!
Valued Member
Netherlands
50 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2021  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gebs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two thistle tokens came in this week.

1823 Half Penny that is NS-1A4 I think
1832 Half Penny NS-1D3 which is quite nice



Edited by Gebs
06/28/2021 3:20 pm
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United States
103630 Posts
Valued Member
Netherlands
50 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  03:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gebs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Came in this week

Nova Scotia One Penny NS-2C2
Upper Canada UC-2A2



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United States
103630 Posts
Valued Member
United States
309 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2021  01:17 am  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Not much going on around here lately!
I'll have to put some posts together about some more of my oddball Anglo- and Hiberni-Canadian material.

Meanwhile, here's one that turned up while I was digging through my "extras" for some old British Oceania tokens. Not a special piece by any stretch of the imagination, but I've always thought it has a lot of character...even wear, solid legends, etc.

Any thoughts on condition?

Magdalen Island Penny, Breton 520, CH LC-1.



Best to all!
Tom
"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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103630 Posts
Valued Member
Canada
136 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2021  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice Magdalen Island token! Those are always popular and seem to command high prices relative to their scarcity. Yours looks like a solid VF.

Excited to see what other material you have to bring to the table!
Valued Member
United States
309 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2021  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Here's another one of my semi-tough Hiberno-Canadian tokens, The George Ords Halfpenny, dated 1834. Going back as far as Batty, who merely noted its existence in 1877, no one has ever identified George Ords, so he's now presumed to be a fictional character. In 1904, Davis listed it without supporting evidence as a Dublin issue (D76) and surmised that the date was specious. His comment was: "Although this token is dated 1834, it has every appearance of having been struck during the token period." And of course no one has ever turned up a hint as to who might have produced it.



The George Ords token, found in both brass and copper, managed to escape Breton's notice entirely. However, it was caught by Courteau, who catalogued it in 1907 as a Bust & Harp token (BH 33-34), and now it appears in Charlton as the final entry (LC-61) in the Lower Canada section.

In their 1999 Bible for the 1811-1820 British token series I collect, Paul and Bente Withers are a bit more forthcoming in their description: "We have found no trace of Ord in any of the many directories that we have consulted. We suspect that Ord did not exist and that this is an evasion rather than a genuine token, The actual date of issue is anyone's guess." Typing this now, I just noticed that Withers goes with the name "Ord," so I guess the conclusion they've drawn is that the name "Ords," as it appears on the token, is really a possessive and the obverse legend should be taken to mean "George Ord's Token."

Withers adds as a footnote to their listing for the piece (W1830): "This token was used extensively in Canada and large numbers were found in a hoard of obsolete tokens sent to Quebec from Montreal in the weeks before the rebellion of 1837." That pretty much mirrors what Charlton tells us, but with one glaring difference: In Charlton (LC-61) the story is that "SMALL numbers of these were found..." [my bold added for emphasis].

The last exonumismatic controversy surrounding the George Ords token has to do with whether these tokens circulated heavily in Ireland and were then shipped to Canada, decrepit and forlorn as we find most of them these days, after the Regal coinage picked up again. or whether the nice full-struck versions were used in Ireland while Canada got only the evasion-style tokens.

Charlton is quite emphatic on this topic, stating in a Note: "To qualify as a Canadian token, legends should not be legible. Only weakly struck tokens from worn dies with no legends are acceptable." On the other hand, no less an authority than Doug Robins is cited in a 2018 Heritage Auction sale as follows, in the description of a pair of Ords tokens: "The early version had clear legends and date, while on the later version these features were strongly suppressed, probably deliberately. It has been said that only those pieces with obliterated legends and dates are "Canadian". Mr. Robins maintained that the strong legends/date version also circulated in Canada and they both have equal claim to being in collections of Canadian tokens."

Overall, the bottom line seems to be...more questions than answers.


"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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United States
103630 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2021  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here's another one of my semi-tough Hiberno-Canadian tokens, The George Ords Halfpenny, dated 1834.
Very nice!

Quote:
Overall, the bottom line seems to be...more questions than answers.
Wish I could help!
Valued Member
Canada
136 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2021  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly more questions than answers!

Much of its supposed "Canadian" Heritage is hinged upon the sole observation by McLachlan of its presence in the Bank of Montreal Hoard. However, as correctly pointed out by Charlton, this was in small numbers: some 25 examples of 5000 examined by McLachlan. The note on the "legibility of the legends" also stems from observations made by McLachlan. I post an excerpt from McLachlan's A Hoard of Canadian Coppers (1889) below.



It would appear that its Canadian-ness has been overstated. No early cataloguer of Canadian tokens ever included this piece in their listings. Tom, Courteau actually did not include this piece in his 1907 Bust and Harp monograph. The BH-33/34 listing was done by Ingram & Marelic (2003) who included a number of varieties that, I believe, do not properly belong with the Bust & Harp series.

This token would seem to be more Irish in its origin than Canadian, but who or what "George Ords" might be or mean is anyone's guess!
Valued Member
Netherlands
50 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2021  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gebs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Came in today 1/4 Dollar NC-1B2



Valued Member
United States
309 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2021  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Good catch, blargish! And my bad on that BH number...something in the front matter of my Charlton book led me to the erroneous citation.

I've been shopping for 1811-1820 tokens of England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and the Channel Islands for going on 40 years now, and I'd estimate 80-90% of my purchases have originated in the U.K. What's particularly interesting about the Ords token is that I almost never see it on sale there -- in any condition or die state -- but instead the overwhelming majority are offered by Canadian and US sellers. That leads me to more theories and speculation...

...but it would be irresponsible NOT to speculate.

"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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