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Show Us Your Worst Counterfeit!

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Pillar of the Community
United States
2048 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2014  2:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
After realeswatcher posted his terrible jewelry cob yesterday I wondered what everyone else had. For starters, here's an 1845W 2 franc I got two years ago:






This is supposed to be a 10g silver coin. It weighs 8.1g, and is apparently copper. There's no trace of any plating, which could have been stripped off for recovery...or maybe it was never plated... The soft details are not from poor focus, they show what detail the forger was able to capture. Louis Philippe's profile is about right, but you have to wonder who they were trying to fool.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/09/2014 10:03 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1656 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  03:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coated in silver, that coin would pass more often than not based on details. You won't find too many contemporary counterfeits that are really poor. The whole purpose of making them was so that they would not be obvious fakes. If anything, the worst quality copies as novelty numismatic ones.
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Australia
13294 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My worst is this one, which I've posted on the forum before:



It's a fairly bog-standard base-metal fake Chinese dollar, but if all Chinese fakes were this low quality, there wouldn't be a Chinese counterfeiting problem. Whatever was used to apply the silver wash has worn away from the high points, showing brassy metal underneath. It's way, way underweight (18 grams; it should be more like 27). The "tarnish" appears to have been spray-painted on. And the overall effect of the low-pressure casting job makes it look half-melted.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
2048 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice Sap, I didn't see it before. I've got a simlarly eroded small denomination Napoleon "silver" coin around here somewhere, but not as impressive as yours.

cgb archives has a very sharply made 1845W 2F which has been cut in half, then soldered back together. The weight is 8.34 grams, while mine weighs 8.1 gram. If mine still had the silvering it would be heavier as well as sharper.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Pillar of the Community
United States
1418 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I get the feeling swamperbob, if he's reading this, is cringing a bit... as it's lumping together contemporary counterfeits with later numismatic/historical copies. The former is a naturally-collectible artifact of the period; the latter breaks down into annoying instrument of collectibles fraud on the bad end, and glorified tchotchke nic-nac on the "good" end...

The only reason they belong in the same thread is to compare/contrast - they are completely different animals by nature.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1418 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My last post aside, I'll play along (on the numismatic fake/replica side of things)... See this posted today on eBay - an example of the many (modern) copies that are sold in Central American flea markets. The cartoonish styling (likely hand-engraved) seen on these copies is often evocative of some "Indian-style" contemporary counterfeits produced by these people's half-ancestors 200 years earlier:

www.ebay.com/itm/SILVER-COIN-WITH-CROSS-LETTERS-NUMERALS-AND-FIGURES-/321294653809

Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is my only identified counterfeit, but it is pretty bad:

Still, as a contemporary counterfeit, it has some charm to it.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2048 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
France was a place where contemporary fakery was abundant. It's surprising how bad some of it is, yet it still circulated to the point that the plating was worn through. The French would also forge small denomination coins, particularly billon 10 centimes in the early 19th century. What were they thinking? How could there have been any margin in this? Considering how GOOD the forgeries of most Spanish colonial milled coins are, its amazing that the French pieces are so bad.

I like that 1776 cob realeswatcher. But which mint is it? The P in the upper LH corner, or the extremely rare D mint in the lower RH corner. It's not contemporary and bad in the extreme, but it might fool someone who wants a real deal on an 8R.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/09/2014 4:16 pm
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Australia
13294 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Remember, a circulating counterfeit doesn't have to be good enough to fool many people. It only has to be good enough to fool one person, once, and it has done its job from the counterfeiter's point of view. Nor do counterfeiters give a hoot about what their counterfeits will look like in 200 years time. Many "bad-looking" counterfeits look bad now, but looked much more convincing when they were fresh out of the mould.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
10045 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect this was intended to deceive in circulation--but I have no proof.
Presumably, the plating was complete when it was made, but the mold seam is still a big giveaway.

Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No way! Why would anyone fake such a thing?

I am hoping to find a Montreal Mint loonie one day, but I don't know - Canadian circulating counterfeits are difficult to track down.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
510 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davidrj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Straits Settlement 1862 1 cent forgery in brass

Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
510 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davidrj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
France 1st Republic, 1 Decime Yr7 (1799)cast forgery in brass

Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
510 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davidrj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spain 1878 10 Centimos in brass

Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
510 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davidrj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Greece 1882 10 Lepta in white metal!

Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
510 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2014  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davidrj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And finally an extremely crude attempt at 1809 10 Centimes from Napoleonic France



I'm always puzzled by these forgeries of low value coins - were the penalties less than for imitating silver or gold I wonder?
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