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The Conder Token Thread

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 Posted 09/24/2020  02:28 am  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Reply #4 to ExoGuy...

As for my collection, it's evolved considerably over the last six decades, but it's always been focused on some aspect of the British World. Before I started collecting tokens in earnest in about 1980, I built a nice world-class Liz-to-Liz type collection that ultimately became the down payment on a great home in Portland, OR. The house has quintupled in value since then...I wonder if that's true of the coins as well!
"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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 Posted 09/24/2020  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ daltonista ... About my collecting focus being "research-oriented" is a fair assessment. That said, I've much enjoyed collecting pictorials and error tokens, too. Few counterstamps offer eye-appeal, but their personalized back stories are often fascinating, I find. One of my recent acquisitions was a DERINGER gunsmith c/s on a Half Cent. The stamp matches that on his pistols. Love the history .... It's a discovery piece, too, that bears his apprentice son's stamped initials.

I previously researched and wrote a blurb about this "milk depot" c/s. It's a unique item, more like a love token than a merchant piece, IMHO. I'd have more appreciated it had it been stamped with a singl die punch as opposed to single letter punches. Anyone can easily create those, nowadays, so I generally stay away from them. I see that somebody "took a bath" on that piece when it sold for over $600 less in 2013 than it realized in 2013.

That Bisset's piece is truly a work of art, a beauty that I've not before seen! I can't envision today's engravers doing a better job. It's a classy design, too.

Edited by ExoGuy
09/24/2020 4:03 pm
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 Posted 09/24/2020  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ExoGuy, that's an interesting observation about the Milk Depot piece...it could be a total confection? The entirety of my engagement with it was only to contribute the photo of the [putative] issuer's location to E-Sylum, so no opinion on my part as to the legitimacy of the token itself. I guess Russ Rulau didn't have much to say about it?

No word from our CCF Overlords yet about what got me censored last night. Basically I was trying to respond to your inquiry and report that my "focus," as you put it, is about 98% on the 1811-1820 British copper and silver tokens, as cataloged by Davis and now Withers for the coppers, and Dalton for the silver. The other 2% of my collecting seems to go toward orphans, mavericks, and unknowns from "the British World"...mainly for the challenge of identifying and attributing them someday, eventually, if ever. I actually have three posted among these CCF threads awaiting contributions from our fellow forum members: one each from Britain, Ceylon, and allegedly Canada. Very few nibbles so far.

Meanwhile, we Davis/Withers guys have our quirky countermarks too. Brief illustrated CCF discussion here of -- would you believe? -- counterfeit countermarks:
http://goccf.com/t/376763

The garbled and bungled c/s gets some Davis/Withers respect too, and several have joined the counterfeits in becoming part of the canon as equals in rarity.

Loved your earlier riff on confusion, ExoGuy, which I would postulate must be a sibling, or at least a cousin, to the syndrome we retired ex-psychology majors recognize as the "Dunning-Kruger Effect," which asserts that unintelligent folks will blissfully never know they are, because they're obviously not smart enough to see it. (Heaven help us all when they get themselves elected to public office, as has been known to occur from time to time!)

Okay, because I feel guilty again that we're taking up valuable space in a Conder thread discussing non-Conder topics, here's my atonement for the day, a Warks D&H 25 penny. The "TW" cypher under the bouquet belongs to Thomas Wyon of the Fabulous Diesinking Wyons, so my guess would be that this penny is his work...just a guess, of course. The Latin phrase translate to "Increases Enormously," or more colloquially, "Gets Bigger." Perhaps that's why my D&H is silent on what that obelisk signifies.
"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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 Posted 09/29/2020  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Pertinent to the discussion above initiated by ExoGuy, this nice tri-metallic Abolition of Slavery set just turned up on Dix Noonan Web, offered as Lot 470 in their November 17 sale of "The Collection of British Tokens formed by John Rose." I'll paste in DNW's description below their image.

Historical Medals, Anti-Slavery Society, c. 1790, medals (3), in gilt-bronze and white metal (2), unsigned [by W. Dixon after W. Hackwood], all 33mm, 9.54g/12h (DH Middlesex 236; BHM 269), 11.86g/12h (DH 237 bis; BHM 269), 12.59g/12h (DH 238; BHM 269) [3]. DH 238 very fine but obverse spotted, others about fine 150-200
Provenance: DH 236 bt R. Lubbock 1974; DH 237 bis bt Stanley Gibbons 1980; DH 238 bt J. Bridgeman 1979


"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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 Posted 10/02/2020  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Worcester 44 sold as "silvered". One of many medals and medalets listed in both D&H and Brown's British Historical Medals (#273).



Edited by yarm
10/02/2020 08:52 am
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 Posted 10/02/2020  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@yarm .... I presume "silvered" means plated. Are you aware of any conders that are 80% silver?
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 Posted 10/02/2020  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@yarm .... I presume "silvered" means plated. Are you aware of any conders that are 80% silver?

No, I've not seen any indication of the % silver content of a Conder token. You seem to have an "off-metal" example of a token normally struck in base metal (a good thing!) where the exact metal composition may not matter much.
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 Posted 10/02/2020  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, yarm. In over 60 years of collecting, I've acquired many a numismatic puzzler, and this piece is one of my favorites.
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 Posted 10/06/2020  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ayrshire 5



Dykes-The Token Coinage of William Fullarton
https://www.britnumsoc.org/publicat...NJ_72_11.pdf
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 Posted 10/10/2020  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My damaged ("plated" on sticky note) example of Warwickshire 1.


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