Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Tiberius? ID Please

Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member

Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  8:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi. My girlfriend is currently in Jerusalem and visited a 'reputable' antiques dealer. She purchased what she was told was a Tiberius coin, but later was having panic attacks that it might not be legit. I tried to match it online, but could not find anything similar. Can anyone please identify what we have here? Many thanks.



Pillar of the Community
United States
513 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuy1530 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't say whether it's legit or not (other than that type is heavily faked), but I think that's one of the shekels that are said to be used as Judas' 30 pieces of silver. That'd make it not Tiberius.
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it possibly Greek? Seems to match some Greek coins with an eagle.
Pillar of the Community
United States
513 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuy1530 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_shekel

Again, these are heavily faked and I'd be extremely nervous buying this from someone that labeled it as Tiberius.
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you think it's possibly a Tyrian shekel?
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah.....just posted that as you were replying. Thanks
Moderator
Learn More...
Australia
13293 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unlike most other Middle Eastern countries, tourists are allowed to buy genuine ancient coins in Israel. So there's some good news: we don't have to automatically assume that it's fake (which is something we would have to assume if you'd said "in Ephesus" or "in Cairo").

That being said, I don't hold out too much hope for the knowledgeability of the "reputable antiques dealer". Because, assuming this coin is genuine, it is not a coin of Tiberius; it is not even Roman. This is a tetradrachm of the Egyptian king Ptolemy III, who ruled long before the Romans arrived on the scene in the Middle East; it is dated to the 8th year of his reign, or 239 BC.

Given that the seller was so thoroughly wrong with the ID, I would not trust them to be able to tell the difference between fake coins and genuine coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you. I'll pass this information on to her and let her decide how to handle it.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
22887 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2015  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a good chance this is a genuine coin of Ptolemy. Here is some information that might me of interest to you. http://www.houseofptolemy.org/housenum.htm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1000 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a Ptolemy iii coin as sap said tho if the dealer thought it was of Tiberius then he shouldn't be dealing as that is blatantly wrong. Otherwise a pleasant coin regardless and similar in design to Ptolemy I and II
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could it have been USED at the time of Tiberius? Maybe there was a misunderstanding.
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've just been speaking to her again and she said the dealer did mention it was a shekel, but Tiberius was also mentioned. She paid US$300 for it. So does she try and return or take a chance and hang onto it?
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1000 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't say whether to keep it or not as I am mainly concerned with Macedonia and the earlier Successors e.g. Seleucus I and Ptolemy I. In terms of worth, 300USD seems in line with retail prices in the market. On a bit of research Ptolemy III bronzes seem far more common than silvers so you have an upside.

In terms of being genuine the style is consistent with other pieces of the time and the toning is consistent with how they are found so I would say it is genuine from the photos provided tho check if it has a line around the rim of the coin as that will indicate faking through the casting process btw I am Aussie too :P
Edited by oh my florin
06/03/2015 01:14 am
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  03:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im afraid I'm going to be the bearer of bad news. If she can get her money back, I suggest she does.

This is a modern cast fake of a ptolemy issue - the real thing would be worth $300, and this has been cast from a real one, but casts, especially like this, which displays the indications the telltale signs of forgery, cost dealers pennies to make.

If she can get her money back, we'd probably be able to direct you to the real deal at the same price from a trusted source, try and salvage a bad situation.
Moderator
Learn More...
Australia
13293 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  04:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Could it have been USED at the time of Tiberius? Maybe there was a misunderstanding.

It is a tetradrachm of Egypt, not a shekel of Tyre, but it looks very similar to the shekels of Tyre and the two weight standards are close enough that, if a coin of Ptolemy III had been found during the time of Tiberius and put back into circulation, I don't think anyone would have paid much attention. But it would have been an extremely unusual occurrence. A silver coin simply doesn't last for 200 years in continuous circulation; 100 years is pretty much the upper limit in ancient times. I suppose it could have been lost and then dug up again a couple hundred years later, but you have to remember that prior to the invention of the metal detector, lost coins tended to stay lost. So connecting this coin with Tiberius is, basically, not logical.

I suppose it's possible that there was some sort of confusion. The dealer might have said that it was "found near Tiberias" (spelled with an A not a U), which is a city on the shore of Lake Galilee; the city itself did not exist during the reign of Ptolemy III but the Galilee area was under the control of Egypt at the time the coin was issued.

Finally, an important distinction should be made: in Israel, there are "reputable" dealers, and there are "licenced" dealers. Only "licenced" dealers are legally allowed to sell genuine ancient artifacts (including coins), and there are only 65 of them in the whole country. If the dealer doesn't have a licence, then the coin is either fake or looted/stolen. If the coin is genuine but the dealer is unlicenced, then the coin cannot be exported and getting caught trying to leave the country with it could in theory get your girlfriend fined $30,000.

Edit: Ben typed while I was typing all this.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
New Member
Australia
8 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2015  08:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttrewin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your detailed responses. She is going to attempt a refund in light of Ben's post claiming it is in fact a fake.
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.77 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05