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Artificial Toning Right? 1945 Canada (50¢) ICCS MS-65 PQ+  
 

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United States
319 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2015  02:15 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add PawnS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Holy Moly! 271959576374


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Canada
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 Posted 08/22/2015  04:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zxcccxz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This guy's coins for sale have been the topic of many a discussion on CCF before. Some people have stated that he may simply be a collector who has sought out monster toned coins and is now selling off said collection. I disagree.

At a US TPG, these coins would most certainly be marked down for AT. I would say that he has artificially toned these coins and has, through connections, or otherwise, been able to get them in ICCS holders (Does ICCS even have a comment for AT? If so, I've never seen it).
Edited by zxcccxz
08/22/2015 04:46 am
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7131 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2015  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin was untouched by the seller. The coin has a Victoria North pedigree assigned by ICCS. It sold in the Canadian Legacy sale earlier this year for about $1500.

"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
08/22/2015 06:12 am
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Canada
2087 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2015  07:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This coin was untouched by the seller. The coin has a Victoria North pedigree assigned by ICCS. It sold in the Canadian Legacy sale earlier this year for about $1500.


True......

But, did you ever consider that this same seller sold this exact same coin to the owner of the Victoria North collection a few years ago for about twice as much?
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 Posted 08/22/2015  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, because unlike you I was not familiar with this collection previous to the auction.

"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Canada
2087 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2015  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure this seller sold plenty of top grade coins to the owner of the Victoria North collection.
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2944 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2015  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw this coin at the sale and I am not so sure that it is artificially toned. One thing I am sure of is that the date is very scarce in MS 65 grade with none finer. I am sure a blast white MS 65 would bring stupid money. I am fairly sure there hasn't been one offered at auction in a long time
Back to the coin at hand , it is a mystery as to how it got to be the colour that it is. Where was it stored and for how long? A wooden jewellery box with high sulphur content is a guess?
Platinum Member ANA1127198
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Canada
949 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2015  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My 1858 cent came from the same seller, I've always wondered about it's very colorful toning. AT/NT is a very fine line when you use a natural agent with a catalyst that speeds up the reaction. Even storing coins in a cedar box could be considered AT if done for the purpose of toning the coins. On the opposite end of the same stick are blast white 100 year old silver coins...
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 Posted 08/25/2015  11:04 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those are like third order interference colours, and way to vivid to be natural...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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998 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2015  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add M_d_in_guy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with SPP on this, here's a bit of info on determining AT coins that I found as a good read.

http://coinsguide.reidgold.com/toning.html

With attention going to the second last paragraph from the bottom regarding the third statement.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. "Einstein"
Edited by M_d_in_guy
08/26/2015 11:55 pm
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Canada
10485 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2015  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure but, it doesns't look like a natual coin to me..something has been done to it to make it that color..
True North
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 Posted 08/26/2015  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CSOTUS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like toned coins as much as the next person, but this half makes me sick. I wouldn't even buy it at melt.
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 Posted 08/26/2015  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you saw it ..... you would. The piece looks amazing actually and again not so sure that is a deliberate AT job. Under the toning it is a pretty amazing virtually mark free piece. Also what appears to be a long scratch across the bust is actually a raised die line and is a diagnostic on one of the 1945 fifty cent obverses. Still waiting to see a blast. White Gem in ICCS or PCGS MS 65. Few and far between I am certain. One of the toughest to find in the series in a true 65 .
Would be really interesting to see what the U.S. TPG s would have to say about this piece. My bet is most likely questionable toning but you never know.
Platinum Member ANA1127198
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Canada
61 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HuguesGervais to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi guys, I am HuguesGervais who own that coin right now and sold it to the Victoria North collector and I bought it back during the Moore auction.
I am a collector who buy and sell coins and with the profit increase my collection.

@zxcccxz
I never AT any coin ever. I don't AT, dip or alter coins.
I like and mostly buy and sell toned coin.
ICCS doesn't add comment on AT coin. If obvious or chemical they won,t grade. But they are less severe than PCGS.

@doubleeagle59
Yes I did.

I bought that coin from eBay in 2009 from "thisthatandtheotherstuf" who collected toned coins. It was already in an ICCS holder and with the same colour. Personally, I cannot confirm if the coin was AT or not by the seller or before him. I can confirm 100% that I didn't toned it and that it's not chemical toning. I asked people around what they think about that toning and some said when a coin was dipped they toned more vibrantly afterward. Most dealer like the coin when see in hand.

Note: I saw many 1971-1972-1973 silver dollar with crazy toning. I bought many of them in their original holder with amazing toning and obviously none were AT. But since these are more common and plenty, nobody question these crazy colours. The velvet holder contain sulphur which increase the toning when silver get in contact with oxygen. If by luck anyone stored a coin in similar fabric/material, then we can get bright toning.
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4164 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I'm not a fan of this toning, I've admired many of your coins. It's definitely valuable to hear from someone with obvious experience collecting coins with toning.
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818 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgHoarder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
an interesting video I saw the other day on how to produce these colors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrA7Jyw1uOs
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