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Currencies Of The German States - The List

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Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  10:48 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The German States used many different currencies.

I listed the most obvious ones, added the four "currencies" of the Judenpfennige, as well as the recently discussed Zollpfennig.

Thus, the starting point is as follows:

Albus [Ag]: (many states)
Atribuo [Cu]: Judenpfennig
Ducat [Au]: (many states)
Groschen [Ag]: (many states)
- Guter Groschen [Ag]: Prussia, Hannover
- Mariengroschen [Ag]: (many states)
- Neugroschen [Ag]: Saxony
- Silber Groschen [Ag]: (many states)
Groten [Ag]: Bremen
Gulden [Ag]: (many states)
Halbag [Cu]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 h. issued)
Heller [Cu]: (many states)
Kreuzer / Kreutzer [Cu/Ag]: (many states)
Krone [Au]: Prussia
Mark [Ag]: all states post-unification
Pfennig / Pfenning [Cu]: (many states)
- Zollpfennig [Cu]: Hesse-Darmstadt, Pfalz-Kurlinie
Ropell [Cu]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 r. issued)
Schwaren [Cu]: Bremen
Thaler [Ag]: (many states)
- Vereinsthaler [Ag]: (many states)
Theler [Cu]: Judenpfennig


Know of others? Would like to add something to the list? Post a note below!

An image of a coin (whether you own said coin or not) or a link to it will be appreciated. The denomination has to be written on the coin. If it's part of a dual denomination, it's also acceptable. It may be abbreviated or indicated by a symbol but it has to be there.

Notes: for the purpose of this thread billon counts as silver. Judenpfennige have no state designation as they were not official issues. In case of any mistakes, corrections are welcome, of course.
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United States
15370 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting idea for a thread!

Saxony issued the Turnogroschen, Horngroshen, Spitzgroschen, Schwertgroschen, Bartgroschen, Zinsgroschen, and Schrewchenberger in the 1400s AD. Some of them have been pictured here:

http://goccf.com/t/269713

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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2016  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence, the thing is they don't have the denomination or currency written on them (please correct me if they do, you'd certainly know better).

By the way, how did people refer to them in documents at the time? Did they say that someone was paid a certain number of Spitzgroschen, Groschen, or something else?

As for the list, I intend to add approximate date ranges for each currency. And while checking when Silbergroschen were minted was easy, I have certainly not found the earliest coin that has "Heller" or "Kreuzer" written on them. Therefore, additions or corrections would be welcome.

Currencies of the German States - updated list for page 1:

Albus [Ag]: (many states)
Atribuo [Cu, 1809]: Judenpfennig
Ducat [Au]: (many states)
Groschen [Ag, 1796-1870]: Prussia, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
- Guter Groschen [Ag, 1753-1763]: Prussia, Hannover
- Mariengroschen [Ag]: (many states)
- Neugroschen [Ag, 1841-1873]: Saxony
- Silber Groschen [Ag, 1821-1873]: (many states)
Groten [Ag, 1658-1864]: Bremen
Gulden [Ag, 1830-1854]: (many states)
Halbag [Cu, 1818]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 h. issued)
Heller [Cu, 1703-1856]: (many states)
Kreuzer / Kreutzer [Cu/Ag, -1871]: (many states)
Krone [Au, 1858-1870]: Prussia
Mark [Ag, 1872-1918]: all states post-unification
Pfennig / Pfenning [Cu, 1761-1873]: (many states)
- Zollpfennig [Cu, 1766-1777]: Hesse-Darmstadt, Pfalz-Kurlinie
Ropell [Cu, 1816]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 r. issued)
Schwaren [Cu, 1719-1866]: Bremen
Thaler [Ag]: (many states)
- Vereinsthaler [Ag, 1857-1871]: (many states)
Theler [Cu, 1703, 1807]: Judenpfennig


Edited by DL20K
12/31/2016 12:49 pm
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United States
8432 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2017  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zweiling / Dreiling / Sechsling were 2/3/6 pfg. denominations, although not always referred to as such on the coins.

AU Carolin / Half Carolin / Quarter Carolin coins were issued by Bavaria and other states in the 17th and 18th centuries, for values over a ducat.

Thaler had many subtypes, such as Kronenthaler (Crown Thaler), Conventionsthaler (Convention Metal Thaler), Reichsthaler (sometimes seen as Rixthaler), Marienthaler, Doppelthaler, and Speciethaler.

Florins were issued, as were half-florins, and quarter florins under Hanover, with 1 florin = 1 gulden.

During the Napoleonic conquest, centimes were struck and circulated.
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Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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United States
648 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2017  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add schmidty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
German States coins are an area I've considered getting into for some time now. The more I learn about the subject, the more respect I have for those who do collect them. It is quite a daunting subject.

That being said, I will be watching this thread and will be saving the finished list. I will also likely be saving some of your comments on the subject. Thanks to DL20K, Spence, and Paralyse (and those who have yet to post) for sharing your knowledge!
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Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2017  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
paralyse, thank you for your input. Dreiling added, Sechsling added, Centime (and Frank) added. I am yet to check the rest of them...
Couldn't find any coin that would spell out 'Zweiling' quickly, though if you know of one please let us know.

schmidty, just listing them all is a daunting prospect, collecting more than one or two states is only for the best among us

I marked some of the dates in red. Those are the ones that are not researched at all, and most probably will have to be pushed back or forward. The black ones should be correct but as long as we don't have all states listed for each denomination, some of them may also change.

Other modifications:
new - Leichter Kreuzer from Wurzburg
new - Schaupfennig from Saxony [auction]
new - Guter Schaupfennig from Saxony [closed listing]
addition - Groten issued by Oldenburg
addition - Groten issued by Verden
addition - Groten issued by Jever
addition - Schwaren issued by Oldenburg
new early date - a half groten coin with the denomination fully spelled out issued by Verden in 1621 [listing].
new late date - 3 heller coin issued by Hesse-Kassel in 1866 [listing].
new late date - 3 schwaren from Oldenburg dated 1869 [listing]

(v. 4)

Albus [Ag]: (many states)
Atribuo [Cu, 1809]: Judenpfennig
Centime [Cu, 1808-1812]: Westphalia
Dreiling [Ag]: Hamburg, Lubeck, Lauenburg, Schleswig-Holstein
Ducat [Au]: (many states)
Frank [Ag, 1808-1813]: Westphalia
Groschen [Ag, 1796-1870]: Prussia, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
- Guter Groschen [Ag, 1753-1763]: Prussia, Hannover
- Mariengroschen [Ag]: (many states)
- Neugroschen [Ag, 1841-1873]: Saxony
- Silber Groschen [Ag, 1821-1873]: (many states)
Groten [Ag, 1621-1864]: Bremen, Oldenburg, Verden, Jever
Gulden [Ag, 1830-1854]: (many states)
Halbag [Cu, 1818]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 h. issued)
Heller [Cu, 1703-1866: (many states)
Kreuzer / Kreutzer [Cu/Ag, 1725-1871]: (many states)
- Leichter Kreutzer [Cu]: Wurzburg
Krone [Au, 1858-1870]: Prussia
Mark [Ag, 1872-1918]: all states post-unification
Pfennig / Pfenning [Cu, 1761-1873]: (many states)
- Schaupfennig [Cu, 1738]: Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (8 s.)
-- Guter Schaupfennig [Cu, 1738]: Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (8 g.s.)
- Zollpfennig [Cu, 1766-1777]: Hesse-Darmstadt, Pfalz-Kurlinie
Ropell [Cu, 1816]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 r. issued)
Schwaren [Cu, 1719-1869]: Bremen, Oldenburg
Sechsling [Ag]: Hamburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Bremen
Thaler [Ag]: (many states)
- Vereinsthaler [Ag, 1857-1871]: (many states)
Theler [Cu, 1703, 1807]: Judenpfennig
Edited by DL20K
01/12/2017 3:35 pm
Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2017  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
paralyse, Kronenthaler added, Reichsthaler added, Speciestaler added.
The Konventionsthaler may be problematic. Sure, some of these coins "ad normam conventionis", all have "10 eine feine mark" (or a similar wording), but I haven't found one that would say "thaler" yet.
Similarly, the pre-19th century guldens. Did they have denominations other than saying "2/3 thaler"?

Other modifications:
new - Schilling
new - silver Marck from Aachen (this doesn't seem to be the same as the "feine mar(c)k" weight unit)
new - Guter Pfennig from Anhalt (3 gute Pfennige issued in billon in 1749)
new - Flitter (tiny copper issued in the early 17th century) [examples]
new - Mattier (copper or silver)
new date - 1825 for Ducat (Anhalt-Bernburg, illustrated in Krause)
new early date - 1821 for Gulden (Baden, illustrated in Krause)
new early date - 1684 for Groschen (Anhalt 16 gr., illustrated in Krause)
new early date - 1746 for Pfennig (Anhalt 1 pf., illustrated in Krause)
new late date - half Gulden from Bavaria dated 1871 [listing]
Valued Member
Germany
303 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2017  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potsdam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are also Gröscher (Prussian coins but as far as I know only provincial issues for East and West Prussia) and Gröschel (Prussian coinage of the province of Silesia).

There is another denomination that is even smaller than a Pfennig but which was minted by several German States and cities: Scherf.
Edited by Potsdam
01/14/2017 4:22 pm
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United States
8432 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2017  10:56 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry it took me a while to get back here. I'll have to check. Been buying a lot of new coins lately, so now I'm in the process of getting them all photographed and catalogued.

Schmidty -- by the way -- if you look at the Wikipedia article on the constituent members of the Holy Roman Empire -- there are over 350 entries, as of the last time that I had seen; admittedly there is some redundancy (we can say "Nassau" and mean one of 10 or more different entities!) -- but indeed it would be daunting.

German States collectors often specialize: a particular entity (all the issues from, say, Jülich-Berg), a particular leader (Friedrich Wilhelm), a theme (city view coins, coins with animals such as Anhalt-Bernburg/Brunswick/Hannover, coins with geographical features, coronation/death issues, etc.), a particular denomination (only Kreutzer, only Thalers..) -- there are a lot of things to pursue...

...and then you have people like me who buy anything and everything just for the fun of it, even if I do nominally prefer Bavarian issues and anything related to the Allgäu...
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2017  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Potsdam, thank you for your input - Gröschel added, Scherf added.

I have a question regarding Gröscher: is it always spelled as Grossus on German coins?
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United States
648 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2017  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add schmidty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Paralyse: Missed your post the first time around. Thanks for the insights. I did check out the Wikipedia page you mentioned. Yeah, wow...I need to do a LOT more homework before I even think about getting into this are of collecting.

My family is originally from Germany, so I am thinking I will eventually settle on one state where my relatives lived. But again, that will take some homework as well! Meanwhile, I will just hang out here and glean as much info as I can!
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Germany
303 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2017  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potsdam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Regarding the Prussian coins, Gröscher is not at all spelled on the coins. On 6 Gröscher and 18 Gröscher coins from Prussia the denomination is only spelled in latin numbers but it is not attributed as Gröscher on the coin itself. However, this is what the denomination is called in the literature.

Indeed, it is quite confusing with coins from Prussia and Prussian provinces: Gröschel, Groschen, Gröscher, Silbergroschen... Funny thing is, that one of these words still is quite common in the German language. "Groschen" did refer to 10 Pfennige until we got the Euros and I suppose that some people would still call the 10 Cent coins Groschen.
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Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2017  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, were the Gröschel, Groschen, and Gröscher different names for the same denomination in various regions of Germany or were they completely unrelated denominations - e.g. with a different rate to the thaler each?
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Canada
11922 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2017  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For a new currency, what about the Stuber? A few states made some of those in either copper or silver (Berg, Cologne, Eastern Friesland, Kleve—I found eleven states in total). As for dates: probably 1738 to 1806.

And some currencies I could only find one example of written on the coin: Denar, Denier (dual denomination), Goldgulden, and Petermeger.

And for one older date: 1 pfennig from Mecklenburg-Schwerin, dated 1621.
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 Posted 02/06/2017  12:20 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got quite a few 1920 iron Notgeld coins from Aachen (Oche in the local dialect) which are denominated as "1 öcher grosche", spelled exactly as such. In standard German it would be "1 Aachener Groschen."
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 02/06/2017  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So, were the Gröschel, Groschen, and Gröscher different names for the same denomination in various regions of Germany or were they completely unrelated denominations - e.g. with a different rate to the thaler each?
In case of Prussian and, especially, Austrian provinces, the name was basically whatever the local language had for the original Latin(ish) "Grossus" (it could also be "Greschl", and IIRC a few other variations).
The grossus itself, however, didn't really have a consistent denomination in terms of rate to the thaler (or to anything else) - it was all over the place in different regions (or at different times in the same region).
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