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Half Dollar 1925 S California Diamond Help Grading

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 Posted 04/03/2017  05:56 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add simone1978 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Half dollar 1925 s california diamond help grading



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 Posted 04/03/2017  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 04/03/2017  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-64, possible MS-65. Once you get to this level of Mint State, it's hard to grade exactly from photos. It is at least a nice Mint State example.
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 Posted 04/03/2017  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS65
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 Posted 04/03/2017  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Check bandsdean's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add bandsdean to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-64. Looks nice!
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 Posted 04/03/2017  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll go 65, really a beauty, congrats.
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 Posted 04/03/2017  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread belongs in the USA commemorative sub-forum ... so the other experts can weigh in with their views ... and confirm or deny what I am about to suggest based on my knowledge of this series in both MS and circulated state.

I"ll ask the Mod Dudes to move it following my reply:

You are not going to like this ... but I am of the opinion this is not a genuine example.

There are many counterfeit examples of this particular coin out there ... and this is one of the better ones I've seen ... your outstanding images allow us to make a few obvious comparisons ....

First ... here are my much less accurate images of a PCGS MS66+/CAC certified example ... let's call this the 'real deal':



Exploring some of the 'issues' I can see in your coin ...

1. Observe the miners hands holding the gold pan on the obverse ... on my genuine example only 1 hand is visible ... on your coin there is a ghost of what would be the miners right hand visible.

2. Staying on the obverse ... look closely at the '2' in the date '1925'. On your coin it attempts to mimic the slightly left tilt of the genuine example ... but is weakly shown ... in fact the entire date is weak compared to the other detail shown on the coin.

3. Move to the reverse and observe the 'S' mintmark ... on my genuine example it is located directly in line with the left edge of 'D' in "Dollar" ... while on your example it is placed elsewhere.

There are a few other anomalies that I could point out ... and maybe I'm wrong.

My strong suspicion is that you were sold a counterfeit ... albeit a relatively good one ... and alas such is the nature of the hobby today.

Hopeful that my fellow commemorative experts will weigh in and either tell me why I am wrong ... our support the conclusion so you can seek some money refund relief.

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.finewoodcrafter.com
Too many hobbies .... too much work .... not enough time.
Edited by nickelsearcher
04/03/2017 5:15 pm
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 Posted 04/03/2017  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This thread belongs in the USA commemorative sub-forum ...
Fixed.
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 Posted 04/03/2017  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldephriam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think there should be more bears depicted on US coins, but I'm prejudiced because I'm Old Ephriam.

As for an opinion about the grade I will say MS-63 because it looks like there is a big scratch on the bear's back.

Real or Fake? Don't know, Don't care. I just want more bears on US coins.
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 Posted 04/03/2017  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
2. Staying on the obverse ... look closely at the '2' in the date '1925'. On your coin it attempts to mimic the slightly left tilt of the genuine example ... but is weakly shown ... in fact the entire date is weak compared to the other detail shown on the coin.


with nickelsearcher. I think it is a fake as well.

Keeping on the subject of the 2 in the obverse, It also looks like it bottom of the 2 is shaped wrong.

The bottom of 2 on "the real deal" coin ends in an upstroke. The bottom of the 2 on the OP's coin looks like it just curves downwards, not a "squiggle" like the other one.
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 Posted 04/03/2017  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've looked at over 50 images on Google in the last hour and must admit that I cannot find this phantom arm on any of them.

nickelsearcher deserves a big round of applause.
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 Posted 04/03/2017  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The more I compare the 2 the more slight differences I am seeing. The knee area looks off and the lines on the rolled up sleeve don't look right either...could be a difference in lighting but I don't think so.
Edited by MontCollector
04/03/2017 7:12 pm
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 Posted 04/03/2017  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right, same here.

Makes me want to steer away from raw coins even more.

I'm really smacked by this one. It's hard to believe even a TPG grader would catch this.
Edited by Coinfrog
04/03/2017 7:13 pm
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 Posted 04/03/2017  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No applause requested for me ... I'm actually saddened to bring this (perhaps) news to our international coin friend who was asking for our help.

simone1978 outstanding images made this easy for us to see his example ... and while I salute the photography I caution as always that education is the key to collector success.

My views are by no means the final word ... and while I am confident in my knowledge and shared findings ... I temper them with the expressed opinions of expert numismatists such as billjones who have also weighed in with their views.

Suggested in my initial reply there were other anomalies ... and there are plenty that I can see ...

MontCollector noted a few ... one more from me ....

Focus on the "D" in the obverse legend "GOD" ... the height of that letter is way higher than an authentic example.


Quote:
Makes me want to steer away from raw coins even more.


Don't go there ... acquire the knowledge to make informed decisions!!


Quote:
It's hard to believe even a TPG grader would catch this.


This should be a slam dunk for PCGS or NGC ... although I have admittedly seen more of this example than some of their newer graders ... especially in circulated state where I often disagree with their opinions.

To simone1978 ... I've been busy making a case ... based on your images ... that you have acquired a well made counterfeit ... I might be wrong ... perhaps its your photos?

I don't think so however ... and suggest you seek a refund for whatever you paid ... my humble opinion only.

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.finewoodcrafter.com
Too many hobbies .... too much work .... not enough time.
Edited by nickelsearcher
04/03/2017 9:08 pm
Valued Member
Italy
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 Posted 04/04/2017  01:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add simone1978 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good morning
I woke up with a good news, the currency could be false, cursed those who falsify are to be put on the wall, however, you will move the high-resolution images, hopefully good greetings Simone





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 Posted 04/04/2017  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the close-ups Simone.

I stand corrected on the shape of the 2. In your new pictures it looks more correct. The lines on the sleeve and knee still look off though.

The Mint Mark still looks off in placement as nickelsearcher pointed out. Having said that, was there only one die used to make these?

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