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1909-O Barber Dime - Repunched Mintmark?

 
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Valued Member
United States
125 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  7:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add angellionel to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found this one while sorting through my Barber dimes last night. The mintmark is repunched, or at least I think it is. It isn't listed in the Cherrypicker's Guide I have. I'm hoping someone at CCF can help confirm if it is a known RPM for that year. Thanks in advance!





Bedrock of the Community
10197 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It definitely appears so, enough separation to not be MD. I don't know of any Barber dime RPM Reference, all my sources stop at Merc, sorry,

Variety vista.com.......no Barber listings
Doubleddie,com..........no listing this date/mm

Edited by Crazyb0
09/07/2017 9:05 pm
Valued Member
United States
125 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add angellionel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Crazyb0 > It definitely appears so, enough separation to not be MD. I don't know of any Barber dime RPM Reference, all my sources stop at Merc, sorry,


I checked the PCGS site and other references too, but I couldn't find any info. I need to update my Cherrypickers. :) Thanks!
Valued Member
United States
371 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redifin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just got done researching my resources...nada.
Valued Member
United States
125 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add angellionel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Redifin > Just got done researching my resources...nada.


Thank you for checking though. Much appreciated!
Valued Member
United States
103 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ItchyN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's machine (strike) doubling. The first closeup photo makes this obvious. Doubling is low to the field and flat, with no splits.
Valued Member
United States
371 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2017  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redifin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, it's not MD. It is a RPM...one that we can't seem to find Info on but a RPM nonetheless. Separation is too great to be MD, especially since no other devices are affected. Plus the MM is the correct size, I.e. not reduced by flattening.
Valued Member
United States
103 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2017  03:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ItchyN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen examples of Machine Doubling with smearing far larger than we're seeing here.



Valued Member
United States
371 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2017  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redifin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No step down and no reduction in device leads me to believe that no, this is not MD. I don't have the coin in my hand, but in some of the pictures the doubling seems quite round. Additionally, I'm seeing other facets inside the MM that tells me the same thing.
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United States
4358 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2017  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only book I know that might shed some light on this is David Lawrence's The Complete Guide to Barber dimes of course this work was published years ago.

-MV
I'm slowly building my numismatic library--106 works and counting

With assistance, trying to compile a listing of numismatic reference books & materials available to collectors http://goccf.com/t/174749
Valued Member
United States
125 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2017  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add angellionel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the responses everyone! They are most helpful. I still think that it is indeed a true RPM; at least I hope it is.


Quote:
MeadowviewCollector > The only book I know that might shed some light on this is David Lawrence's The Complete Guide to Barber dimes of course this work was published years ago.


Thanks for the information! I will also have to take a look at the latest edition of the Cherrypicker's Guide to see if there are any Barber dimes for 1909 listed. My edition does not have any examples for that year.
Valued Member
United States
103 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2017  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ItchyN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Read this article (by JT Stanton, author of Cherrypickers' Guide) for a discussion of Strike Doubling vs other doubling:

http://www.shieldnickels.net/articl...Doubling.pdf
Valued Member
United States
371 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2017  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redifin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Itchy, I'm trying to stay humble here but I'm very familiar with MD. Nevertheless, I just read your referenced article. It's was a fine article but alas, it's nothing new to me. It has not initiated any change in my mind and has not swayed my confidence in this being a RPM. Truthfully, your article actually reinforced my notion that this is a RPM.
Valued Member
United States
103 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2017  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ItchyN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Redifin, the article reference wasn't intended for you since your mind is made up. I thought that the other readers might benefit from the information in the article.
Valued Member
United States
371 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2017  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redifin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope they do benefit.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5590 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2017  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Redifin
This thread has me interested in your dime. I am being inquisitive, not argumentative.
You said:

Quote:
No step down and no reduction in device leads me to believe that no, this is not MD.


In all of your pics, it seems them left side of the O is more thin than the right side. I went online for more pics of the O MM on a 1900 dime and saw both sides of the O on non-doubled MMs look uniform in width. However, I also am not aware of how much variance can be from one die to another as far as the mm characteristics go.


Here is a mint mark I believe to be MD and its spread is very wide:


The MM is also the only thing affected on my quarter - and I don't understand how this is physically possible either.

The first and second pic you have posted appears to show a flat steplike-structure the same as my quarter does. However, your third picture is not as shelf-like. I know its difficult to always have the camera pic up what is seen in hand.

I would like to see what Coop has to say concerning this and also have someone tell me how the bounce that makes Machine Doubling can only affect a mint mark.

- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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