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The 1959 Venezuela Gold Hitler Medal That Never Was?

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4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2017  1:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello all

In 1957 to 1959, there was a series of gold medals (often mistakenly called coins) minted by the Karlsruhe Mint in Baden in Germany for the Banco Italo-Venezolano in Venezuela with the currency being of the bolivares type. My Standard Catalog of Modern World Gold Coins, published in 2007, pages 749-750, mentions a partial or otherwise very incomplete listings of these medals. These medals were of major war leaders during WWII.

While a folder of these medals were once made, part of the considerable confusion regarding these series were that they were labled as "coinages" on the folder. The fact that the bolivares denomination appears nowhere on the coin is why I believe they are considered medals. They can be identified by the gram weight engraved on them, as Krause has done so on a partial listing of them in their catalog.

Note: this series is rife with inaccuracies, incompletions, confusion, erroneous information, conflicts and mistakes in printed articles or publications, to include Krause, 3rd party graders, coin dealers, auction houses, the mint itself and even the Smithsonian Institute.

The series of medals is engraved on the coin as "CHIEFS IN THE SECOND WAR" (JEFES ENLA SEGUNDA GUERA)(Spanish), including various country / military leaders on both sides of the war. They initially numbered 14, (then 4 more were added) featuring leaders in WWII on both sides, to include Tito, Montgomery, de Gaulle, Hitler, Mussolini, Churchill, Truman, Eisenhower, Rommel, Stalin, etc. They were all 22k/9000 gold medals. Most of the confusion is regarding the weights.

Here is where the fun starts... In my 2007 Krause Catalog of Modern World Gold Coins, they are listed in 1957, 1958 is completely skipped, and a single example in 1959. They are listed as 20 and 60 bolivares in 1957, with a single 160 bolivares in 1959. The fact is that there were more bolivares medals not listed, such as the 90 bolivares, and they were also made in 1958 as well.

The new 2018 Standard Catalog of Modern World Gold Coins by Krause does not have this series in it at all, while my 2007 edition does have a few (but incomplete) examples. Someone told me that the series does not show in their 1985 Krause catalog either, but I do not know if he meant the coin catalog or a medals catalog.

This is just the start of the incomplete and/or inconsistency images or recordings of these medals. The 20 bolivares is listed to have 6.0 grams of gold, the 60 bolivares 22.2 grams, the 160 bolivares 50.0 grams.

There was a change in the design and finishes from 1958 to 1959...the 1957 were of a MS strike and had their gram weight in two different area of the medal and had the dates of the war (1939-1945) stacked on top of each other, while the 1958-1959 series were issued as proofs, had their gram weight engraved in only one area, and had the date 1939 on one side of the medal and 1945 on opposite sides.

Some had their gram medal weight listed either once or twice in the same year, and in different places on the medal depending on the year, along with a 3rd slightly different gram weight also engraved on certain years.

There are examples where, in the same bolivares/gram weight and year is different from the mint. The fact is that these medals came in gram weights of 6.0, 15, 20, 27, 30 and 50 grams. There was a set available of all 18 leaders (got upped 4 leaders from the original 14), but I believe it only came in one or two gram sizes (the 15 or 20 grams). see and only a part of the confusion here...

here is a 1957 which shows a 22.2 gram weight only by the eagle's right wing. How or why the mint did this is a mystery to me, because in 1959 the Krause catalog shows the gram weight located located also on the medal's lower rim, as it did for the 1958-59 medals.




and here is another 1957 which, in addition to the first picture which shows the gram weight by the eagle's right feather as before as 22.2 grams, but the gram weight but in addition now is listed as 20 grams roughly in the 4 and 8 o'clock position along the rim. Same year, different design... but the same 22.2 gram weight is now by the eagle's feather.












and here is an image of a 1959 medal, this was the 1959 90 bolivares, 30 grams, 40mm diameter, their is only one of mention/engraving of gram weight is under the eagle's feathers. You will notice that there is a "GR." there and right next to it is the gram weight. All 1959 / 1959 medals are like this, with the dates of 1939 and 1945 on opposite sides of the medal.

Note: the 1957 60 bolivares is 30mm in width, showing 22.2 grams by the eagles feather but showing 20 grams in the 4 and 8 o'clock position along the bottom rim of the medal, as seen in the catalog.





and here is a 1958 20 bolivares, 6 grams, which shows its gram weight only once in approx. the 8 pm area along the rim. note that the 1939 and 1945 dates (of the war) are now on opposite side of the medal.







if that is all not confusing enough, there is a 1959 medal, of unknown bolares, which, similar to the 1959 90 bolivares example above has the 1939 and 1945 dates on opposite sides of the coin, but, this one, next to the "GR" under its tail feathers, has NOTHING but a blank space next to it. here it is...



My medal has been tested at 11.7 grams at 22.22 gold purity on 3 different machines, vs. the 22.00 purity as listed for all other bolivares, which would put it between the 20 bolivares at 6 grams and the 15 gram medal. I suspect that there may have been atleast a 40 bolivares and 4 more gram weights minted. However, I am unable to explain why there is a big blank space besides the "GR" where there should be a gram weight. All 1959 bolivares have this "GR" engraved with the gram weight immediately following with the exception of this medal.

As an example, here is another 1959 medal and a few other examples.






sorry that I got the images mixed up in the text, but if you will look at them you will see the differences. for example, mine is the one with the red and black ring around it in its holder... notice the gap next to where the "GB." is at, there is just a blank there. There is more, but I don't want to muddy the waters too much. OK, MY POINT IS THIS:

1. why does my 1959 medal have nothing in the area where the gram weight should be? I and the coin dealer have looked closely here, there is no alterations or signs of removal, etc.

2. why does my 1959 medal have a gram weight of only 11.7 grams? It is 30 mm across, which is the same width of the 60 bolivares medal which weighs 22.2 (or 20) grams, depending on how one interprets the two different gram weights on that coin?

3. most importantly, does anybody have an older or different catalog which is more complete, and if lucky show my medal.

here is 4 images of my medal, 1 of which shows above in the red and black surroundings in a coin holder. one of the images include the first scale we weighed it on and then we put it on a very modern analyzer which read out the complete content metals percentages in detail and confirmed the weight as well. it reads 11.7 on the first scale we weighed it on that is pictured here but it is difficult to make out the numbers.



















I apologize for the somewhat confusing text in this topic, but if you are confused now, you ain't seen nothing yet. I think that this is enough for now, but I would welcome any questions, comments or even suspicions that you may have.

thanks... mike

p.s. I am a WWII buff and I bought the coin for what it was in historic value, not for who is on it. It could have easily been one of the other 17 leaders, but this is the medal I ended up with as it seemed uniquely different from the others in matters its unusual weight and the omission of the gram weight engraved on it, neither of which I have seen on any of the other medals in the series during my exhaustive research.

thanks again for ANY information, comments, doubts, suspicions and ESPECIALLY if you see it in a catalog. I have exhausted the web and am convinced the answer is not there, so my only hope is that someone may have an earlier catalog regarding this series.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2017  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a pretty large number of past Standard Catalogs and ill take a peak to see if there is any additional information.

The two volume hard cover set out out many years ago was much more complete on non-coin items. I'm betting that will be my best chance of snagging any additional facts.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2017  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you moxking. Part, and this is only a small part, of the confusion is that many refer to them as coins rather than medals or medallions. for instance, they are (or are, or are from time to time considered coins even by Krause as they appear in my Krause 2007 "World Gold COINS catalog, while they skip them in 2018. here are 4 sellers on ebay who call them coins...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-GOLD-...302539796947

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-GOLD-...222729685619


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Venezuela-...291457018143

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Venezuela-...301624122788

and here is a dealer that disagrees. note also how this dealer has an issue or two with the series themselves in other issues... and believe me this is just the start and of no importance to me what they are considered, I personally feel they are medals. My main interest is to find my medal in a catalog, somewhere, somehow. Just so that anybody who is interested in this topic that whether it is a coin or medal or medallion is of little interest to me. I just want it found, if possible.

https://taxfreegold.co.uk/venezuela...aguerra.html

again, thanks for any help you may be able to provide.

Point being is that this medal may be located in either a coin or medal/medallion catalog.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2017  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
any luck, moxking?
New Member
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2023  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ital to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mussolini gold coin. Chiefs in the second war 1939-1948 Italia
Printed in Spanish: "Jefes en ls sgunda guerra"

Back of the coin
Next to the eagle 22.2 Gr
Banco Italo Venezolano
1957

Available



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jbuck's Avatar
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161167 Posts
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South Africa
1 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2023  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CAP53 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi there
I am interested to know what my Chiefs of the second world war medal is worth
It is a Tito medal

Much appreciated
CAP
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16245 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2023  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I seem to have missed this thread back when it was first posted in 2017. I think my information is too late to help the OP, since they haven't been on the forum since 2022, but I can offer some opinions/information.

These items are regarded as "unofficial coins", rather than "medals". As such, they are listed in the Krause "Unusual World Coins" catalogue, rather than their mainstream coin catalogues. The indicator that this is the case can be seen in the old screenshot from the NGC coin price guide: the coin has an "X" catalogue number, rather than a regular "KM" number. The NGC guide includes the X catalogue, so these unofficial coins do turn up in an NGC database search.

For 4504's now-probably-moot question, I believe the best explanation for the missing weight-mark, odd weight, and unusual appearance is the simplest one: it's fake. Probably genuine gold (a "jewellery imitation"), but still not an original 1957 Banco Italo-Venezolano issue. Making fake pseudo-coins is much less riskier, from a legal perspective, than making fake actual-coins. And there's always a market for Hitler memorabilia.

For CAP53's question, in terms of value, I don't believe these items are worth anything above bullion value. Here's the NGC database entry for the Tito coin, and it's just listed at bullion value (currently US$345).
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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