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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V2.0)

 
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11920 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2018  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Sound ok to y'all? If so, I'll clarify on the initial post so that folks don't need to keep digging down to this specific post.

Sounds good to me!

With that in mind, here is a 1 quarting (1/4 denár) piece from Hungary. This type was made from 1430 to 1437:



And this will be last post on this thread for a few days. From this point on, the coins I own that I can post in this thread are going to start being quite spread out.
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United States
12383 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2018  05:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
From this point on, the coins I own that I can post in this thread are going to start being quite spread out.


@joseph7420, if only there were some mechanism for changing that about your collection. I look forward to seeing your next post!

Here is my Groschen from the German Archbishopric of Cologne (Riehl mint). This is very similar to yesterday's coin, just from about a decade earlier. Cologne seems to have pumped out a bunch of coins in the mid-15th Century. The obv legend is "THEOD ARCPI COLON" while the rev legend is "A D M CC CC XXXVIII". It is attributed as Levinson I-44.



"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2018  06:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Truly awed at those early dates!

I am back to Brabant with this undated Cavalier D'Or minted in Brussels 1434-37. Friedberg 27. Obverse PHS DEI GRA DUX BURG BRAB Z LIMBURG Rev. SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTUM AMEN.

I have nothing in a narrowly dated range in the next two decades, but will be enjoying following others' posts


Edited by tdziemia
02/06/2018 06:27 am
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
942 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2018  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence, the 1437 coin from Köln is very interesting, and beautiful design. I agree that the date is amazing.

tdziemia, great golden piece from Brabant, nice strike. For Brussels do we see on the OBV side the picture of St Michel, the dragonslayer? It seems likely as this image has been used on other Brussels coins (I have a few from the 16th century).
Your previous coin: interesting to learn that Mechelen (Archbishopric city too like Köln) had its own mint in this period.
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 Posted 02/06/2018  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the 1437 coin from Köln


Thanks for the compliment, but I see now that I wasn't clear enough in my description--this coin is actually from 1438 AD.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/06/2018  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For Brussels do we see on the OBV side the picture of St Michel, the dragonslayer?


1c5d, I have assumed from the name of the coin (Cavalier) it is a noble or knight, rather than a saint, though indeed it looks like there is something on the ground near the feet of the horse. I am not an expert on these coins, but the English gold angel shows St. Michael standing while slaying the dragon, and the saint shown on horseback is usually St. George (coins of Ferrara and Mansfeld from near the same time ... and some other places). On all of those coins, the Renaissance iconography shows the saint with a halo, and also on the earlier Jean I double esterlin of Brussels, we see St. Michael with a halo, so I am thinking our Cavalier is just a mortal rather than a saint. But just my opinion.
Edited by tdziemia
02/06/2018 9:34 pm
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
942 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2018  04:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence: no, the mistake was mine, your description of the coin was clear MCCCCXXXVIII is 1438, this one year difference does not make the date less amazing
tdziemia: I agree with your point, there are several indications suggesting that the figure in your coin is a knight and not St. Michel (Saint Gudule - the patron saint of Brussels) slaying the dragon;
* the figure has no halo (although this is not used later on - see a detail of an example the Brussels mint used for a 16th century coin)
* the figure on your coin has no wings while in later images the saint has wings (idem)
* it is indeed not very clear what is below the feet of the horse
it would be nice to find out for such a rare piece to find out who is represented

detail of Saint Michel slaying the dragon on a 16th century Brussels coin

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 Posted 02/07/2018  05:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, on to the decade of the 1420s this morning.

Here is a Groschen from the German City State of Aachen dated 1420 AD. The obv inscription is "SCS KAROL MA G IPERATO" while the rev inscriptions are "ANNO DOMINI MILESSIMO CCCC XX" and "MONETA VRBAQVS". It is attributed as Levinson I-15.

Aachen was clearly an early adopter of the concept of dated coins.



"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
02/07/2018 05:32 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2018  07:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another super coin!

As you can tell from my posts, I love the history told by these medieval/renaissance coins and their iconography.
We've changed from an image of St. Peter on the Cologne area coins to Charlemagne on Aachen. Both were Imperial cities in late middle ages, that is, cities that were not the subjects of a duke (as in Brabant or Flanders) or King (as in England or France), but were directly subjects of the Holy Roman emperor. In some of these cities (Cologne, Mainz), the leading civic authority was also the leading clerical authority, i.e. a bishop or archbishop. and we often see St. Peter on their coins in recognition of this authority. For Aachen we see Charlemagne, the first Holy Roman emperor, and a reminder that Aachen was frequently the site of crowning new Holy Roman Emperors during those years.

URBAQUS in the inner reverse legend refers to the Roman name for Aachen, Aquae Granni, ("Springs of Grannus). So I suppose it is an abbreviation for City (URB) of Aachen (AQUAE).



(oops, I kinda ran on there ... )
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 02/07/2018  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
detail of Saint Michel slaying the dragon on a 16th century Brussels coin


That is a really nice detail, 1c5d!

I am aware of two angels found on medieval and renaissance coins:
- St. Michael, who as you point out, is on some coins of Brabant (I will post one as we get into the 1200s), England, and some other places.

- Gabriel, who was the messenger to Mary about her destiny. We see Gabriel on the "saluto" coins of southern Italy.

I had never realized that sometimes the angels are shown with a halo, and sometimes without. Always learning!

Edited by tdziemia
02/07/2018 08:10 am
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 Posted 02/07/2018  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdziemia, thanks for providing the color commentary to these coins. I think that you nailed the translation of the inscription on my coin.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 02/08/2018  06:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rather than post another dated coin from Aachen for the decade of the 1410s, I thought that it might be fun to show a Groat from the Netherlands County of Holland. It is undated, but was minted in 1411 AD. The obv inscription is "GUILM DVX DEI GR COM HOL Z ZE" and the rev inscription is "+MONT NOVA hOLAD Z ZENA". I have it attributed as Chantard VIII.5 and Grolle #19.3.7. I don't actually own either of these books, so would appreciate any input from our low countries experts if you disagree (or agree) with these attributions.

Tomorrow, we move on to the first decade of the 1400s!



"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2018  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wish I had a better reference library, but have not invested much there. Can count them on one hand: de Saulcy (Lorraine 1100-1750), Gumowski (Poland), Ghyssens (Brabant to 1400).
Nice groat. I have something similar lined up for tomorrow from "next door."
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
942 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2018  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
tdziemia
Quote:
I love the history told by these medieval/renaissance coins and their iconography


very true ! this also applies to other periods and regions and perhaps this is something to consider in general when deciding what you want to collect;

I would certainly use similar words about the excitement of collecting 16th century coins - the iconography and legends are concrete elements of history that survive until today

Spence: the rampant Lion is great! it comes back in the 16th century Lion Daalders; very different is the way Holland and Zeeland are abbreviated in the legend
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 Posted 02/08/2018  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
very different is the way Holland and Zeeland are abbreviated in the legend


I agree--I think that this is my only coin with "ZENA" in the inscription. Looking forward to seeing what tomrrow brings!

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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