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Help With a Sassanian, Gadhaiya Silver Coin ?

 
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1095 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2018  05:36 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Just arrived...Seller had it as an Indo Sassanian Drachm?

Really liked the look of this one and reminds me of Finns Avatar?

Any ideas what this might be?


Thanks Paul
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 Posted 01/26/2018  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin!

Yours is an early type of Gadhaiya, sometimes attributed to the Chavdas of Gujarat, c. 650-944. The Chavdas were usurped by the Chaulukyas in 944. (Keep in mind of course, that attribution of these types is extremely tricky!)

In particular, your example is one of the earliest to add a line through the portrait's eye, and the reverse displays a clearly differentiated head, necklace, and breasts of the attendant, and importantly still retains an elbow in the arm, while the body is reduced to a thick line below the arm.

I do have an image to illustrate the basic development of this series:


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 Posted 01/26/2018  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Finn....

I'm glad you like the coin it's reassuring..

Great photo of the progression,,nice coins!
How do you take your photos?

Now I can see mine is very different from your avatar..mine being pretty chinless!

Thanks for the "tricky" attribution its really appreciated,I really do like the look of these coins...They are very addictive!

I've got 2 more on the way and hope you don't mind if I seek your opinion of them when they arrive?
Are you still working on the research thread?It would be great to see it again with new photos..

Paul
Edited by Palouche
01/26/2018 2:25 pm
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Belgium
1132 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2018  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a similar in my medieval section that I bought because it was beautiful and cheap ,it is supposed to be Mitchener 419ff . that is all I know. albert

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 Posted 01/26/2018  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin, glad that Finn our expert on these already replied.
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 Posted 01/26/2018  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Addictive is right! At 225 strong, I've barely scratched the surface! I have a half-baked rough draft sitting in my drafts folder, but my illustrative images for the first few Gadhaiya types are uploaded:

Series 1.1 - Early Types
- Stylish imitations of Peroz in very pure silver
- Attendants always have "herringbone" dress with long, skinny body


Series 1.2 - Chavadas of Gujarat
- Attendant body reduces to lump beneath arm, then to angled blob
- Detached chin
- Line is added to eyeball abruptly
- Style diverges into tall skinny head (like yours) and head with jutting eyebrow (my last example)


Series 1.3 - "Curved Head"
- Totally unknown attribution
- Chin is attached to head
- Large, domed forehead
- Attendants are made of uniformly sized dots, but still arranged schematically into head, necklace, breasts
- Reverse is abruptly re-engraved to fit the shrinking flan better


Series 1.4 - Chaulukyas of Gujarat / Gadhaiya Paisa
- Head shrinks and becomes more normally proportioned; chin is detached again
- Reverse is re-engraved to fit better, attendants squish into tightly clustered dots
- Flan shrinks and weight increases to >4.2g
- Artistry becomes more sloppy rapidly and the line through the eye is lost.


I couldn't get the rest resized to under 300kb without pixellation, but I hope this is helpful!
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 Posted 01/26/2018  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
225!!......I'm on 4....But plan to get a few more

Quote:
but I hope this is helpful!

Excellent thank you! That really helps!..Great coins and write ups.Seeing them in sequence makes it a lot easier to assimilate the change in this series..
Thanks again


Quote:
I bought because it was beautiful and cheap

I agree a lovely coin and thanks for sharing

Paul
Edited by Palouche
01/26/2018 7:31 pm
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 Posted 02/15/2018  02:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another two that arrived today..

Looking at Finns series I think the first coin is from series 1.3 (the curved head type) the same as the 3rd sample?

The 2nd coin has a similar style to series 1.4 but my coin still has a line through the eye?

Any thoughts?

@Finn..I'm setting up a gallery of my coins over on forvm and wanted to use your series as a reference and acredit you..any ideas as to how I can do this or would you rather I didn't?

Paul



Edited by Palouche
02/15/2018 4:28 pm
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 Posted 02/16/2018  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice new additions Paul! I really need to get a later style Gadhaiya in bright flashy silver like yours; most of mine are either toned, or low enough silver that the acid "pickled" them when they were cleaned. That's some nice eye candy you have there.

Your attributions are correct, but my numbers have 3 or 4 levels of granularity:

Track : Series : Sub-series : Type (if applicable)

For example, the "curved head" series 1.3:

1.3.1 - Junk bin for uncertain transitional coins
1.3.2 - "Fancy" type with sharply curved, well-engraved head (my avatar and his brothers)
1.3.3 - "Tall head" type where the noggin goes straight up (yours)
1.3.4 - Curved Head type where the head approaches a 90 degree curve
1.3.5 - junk bin for late or unofficial types

I'll read back over my rough draft and email it to you - I don't think I am going to need to make any major revisions to those two, although Maheshwari's book threw a total monkey wrench into my entire track 2.
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 Posted 02/16/2018  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Steve...

Great info and sorry there was a 'wrench' but sometimes this makes it more funwork..


Quote:
"Tall head" type where the noggin goes straight up (yours)


Do you mean that the brow of the nose follows the angular line of the forehead?

I have 4 more coins on their way and I'll use the same thread to post them. 2 of them seem to be from your 1st series but 1 of them I can't place...

Thanks again for your knowledge in this series...I know it consumes a lot of time and patience to realise this but it's really appreciated!

Paul
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 Posted 02/25/2018  05:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's two more just arrived...

Any extra info appreciated..
Paul

Looks like Finns series 1.3 curved head


Looks like Finns series 1.1 early type
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1095 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2018  03:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the coins I have so far ...

Are they in the correct Chronological order?

What I'm just trying to achieve is a small set depicting the transition of design but not going into too much detail,for example 1 or 2 coins per series...

Thanks Paul


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 Posted 03/09/2018  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glad you won that one! I had thought about bidding on it, but I have the same type; more evenly struck but even heavy wear throughout. It's a very nice and rare type that I have in series 1.1.2, a junk bin for unusually stylized early Gadhaiya that look distinctively Hunnic and usually don't have a beard. You got a terrific deal on it! Compare VS this auction (not mine):

https://www.cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=98580

Fun tidbit: out of the *entire* Gadhaiya track, that is the only coin where the top portion of the ribbon is made of only two lines. I don't have mine imaged yet; focusing my energy on my sales and a few other things then I plan to dive back into it to get the project off the ground.
New Sale! Inexpensive classic Greek silver, over 2,400 years old!

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 Posted 03/09/2018  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Steve...Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

I just really had a nice feel from the coin and loved the overall look of it..

Really looking forward to seeing the project..

Any tips on styles to look out for that would fill in any big gaps in my small collection?

Thanks Paul
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 Posted 03/09/2018  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could tell you, but it wouldn't be pretty for your budget! I have noticed patterns over the past two years; hoards of similar coins tend to be sold about 10-20 per week until they are gone and the next type starts showing up on eBay. Currently there have been a huge number of "curved head" types, Sri Ha types, and Palas types - they will dry up and become scarce soon enough and be replaced by something else. Top types I would keep an eye out for:

- More varieties of 1.1 early types; there are a lot
- Malwa types, like your battle scene coin, but with a fire altar reverse
- Sri Omkara types, with a fire altar but the middle is replaced by Sri Om/ Ka Ra in devanagari

There are also earlier types of Sri Ha drachms and Palas drachms - they are not easy to find though!

A few examples:
Proto Sri Ha
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANCIENT-IN...AOSwuhFaP5tI

Early type
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANCIENT-IN...AOSwNkJaO-TC

Early type
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANCIENT-IN...AOSwlzRaXgfj

Sri omkara
https://www.ebay.com/itm/INDIA-OMKA...AOSwYDZaaA-a
New Sale! Inexpensive classic Greek silver, over 2,400 years old!

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 Posted 03/09/2018  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you! Really appreciated..

I think I saw one of the 3rd examples at 20 euros I'll take a look now..

Paul
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