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Help With a Sassanian, Gadhaiya Silver Coin ?

 
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 Posted 03/28/2018  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two new ones just arived..

First one I think is from Finns 1.4 series with no line through eye,chin detached and head shrunk.Looks similar to Alberts coin.Picked it up for 7$

Second I think is a Paramara of Malwa around mid 13th century with fire alter reverse...A large group came up for sale at the same time they all went up up up but this one stayed put probably to do with the slight dark stain at 4 o'clock so I snapped it up at 4$

Paul



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 Posted 03/28/2018  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You only won that second one because my browser glitched out and didn't add it to my watch list... I won the rest

Sincerest congratulations on that second win... you now own one of the rarest Indo-Sassanian coins! I paid $50 for my first; a price I was thrilled to pay:



These are important because Maheshwari wasn't able to acquire one, and I don't think Deyell or Michener were aware of the type either. The pervasive theory is that the "distinctive nose" was a further imitation of the more common Malwa type, but the presence of the Gadhaiya type face on these handful of specimens proves that assumption wrong. In total, including yours, I have only seen four of these coins, and currently own two of them. I'm sincerely glad you were able to snag the other one, and for such a bargain, too!

I like your first coin, too! Most of my examples of this type were from a handful of months ago, and don't have such clean surfaces. I've been buying up a few more, since these have generally been in much better quality. I took a nibble at the one in Frank Robinson's sale, but last I heard from him, bidding was at $160!
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 Posted 03/28/2018  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Steve that's great news!

I had a feeling it might've been you bidding on the others and thought about emailing you to check but I only put one bid on one of them which took it up to 7$ sorry!They were nice coins in really good condition,great pickups! Will you be posting them?

Just one question..How would you attribute my second coin?

Thanks again Paul
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 Posted 03/28/2018  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't had a lot of time to image coins - my wife and I had our anniversary last weekend, and lots of chores and home improvement projects popping up as the weather warms. I do plan to image them soon, and there is another (overpriced) example out on eBay I might buy when my eBay bucks clear.

Unfortunately, since these are unpublished, there isn't much to lean on. For now, these are series 1.6:
1.6.1 - Early type with face (yours)
1.6.2 - Intermediate type with dissappearing face (several of the others from that group)
1.6.3 - Intermediate type with no face, good silver
1.6.4 - Late type in extremely low grade billon (1-2% silver)

Attribution is guaranteed to be tricky, and is something I simply don't have access to enough data to ascertain. I'll read that chapter of Maheshwari again and see what he says, taken with the knowledge that his assumptions on the origin of this series are wrong.

These are unusual in that they are the only full diameter imitations of the main-line Gadhaiya out there. The existence of a sea of dots demonstrates that they had no idea what they were engraving!
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 Posted 04/11/2018  04:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a rare one....Thanks Steve!

Instead of the Sri Ha or Sri Va symbols in front of the portrait it has a "Flower".
Also (I think the reverse is correctly orientated) as I can see a crescent moon and their is a tall pillar in the centre of the fire altar?
Hopefully Steve will be along to give more info as there isn't much out there!

Paul

Edited by Palouche
04/11/2018 04:48 am
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 Posted 04/11/2018  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What you've said is about all that's known. Maheshwari supposes that this type is an imitation or derivation of the common Sri Ha drachm, but it is my opinion that the presence of a moon on yours, as well as the shape of the attendants, fire altar, and portrait leave little doubt that this is an earlier iteration. Maheshwari also reckons that these are imitations of the "Vajara Vakhudeva" Turco-Hepthalite drachm, although that is entirely based on the assumption that the Senmurv head on Vakhudeva's crown is the Brahmi letter "Sa" - it isn't. This is still a Peroz copy, and actually related to the early Hunnic drachms. The missing link here:

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=85573
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 Posted 04/12/2018  04:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Steve!....Interesting link...

There seems to be some confliction over Maheshwaris study?

Is the book expensive? As I might look into buying one...

Thanks again Paul
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 Posted 04/12/2018  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maheshwari's book is an excellent tool for the enthusiast of the series, as he is the only author who exhaustively documents find spots for his coins (when available) and ran a metallurgical analysis on a sampling of each of his groupings - good info to know, especially since many call the run-of-the-mill Gadhaiya coins "billon" while in fact many are in excess of .800 pure.

He is intensely interested in the "battle scene", Sri Omkara, and some of the Sri Ha and Pala types - his analysis saved me thousands of dollars and years of slow accumulating of the scarcer types!

I feel that he makes some rash assumptions, namely he clumps all Gadhaiya type coins into Type I and Type II, solely on the basis of whether the orb above the headgear has protrusions. No commentary on the degradation of the attendants, no mention of the highly unusual head shapes that appear, or what they could mean, and negligible commentary on the design standards employed at various times, and how they can be used to construct a lineage. That's the focus of my study, and I was hoping to check my hypotheses against his, but he didn't make any.

At any rate, the book isn't *too* expensive. I got my copy for I think $65 on Abebooks, after having three copies go poof during international shipping over the course of five months.
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 Posted 06/03/2018  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a new one....Any help appreciated..4.66 gr / 14 mm

Thanks Paul



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 Posted 06/03/2018  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome pick-up, Paul. That is some steep relief. Hopefully Finn will be by.
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 Posted 06/04/2018  12:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice scarcer type there, Paul.

To be honest, this one has me a bit stumped. The chunky degenerate and very high relief style is typical of the terminus of this particular track (per a lot of online references, the Vaghelas who ruled Gujarat until the Muslim takeover in the 1304). However, the very loose spacing belongs more with the Chaulukya type, and the bottom line of the fire altar bowl is very very short--another calling card of that type. If there is indeed any correlation between the changing of hands between the Chaulukyas and the Vaghelas (Just like Rome 800 years earlier, the last handful of Chaulukya kings were ineffectual puppets ruled by their Vaghela generals) with the coinage, this type would probably be from that transition; within about a decade or two of 1244. Again, that's just conjecture and none of the more established authors mention these coins specifically.
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 Posted 06/06/2018  03:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Bob and Steve!

Great info as always...Just one question ...Under the nose there seems to be another dot is this the eye?

Paul
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 Posted 06/06/2018  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes it is the eye.

Thinking on it some more, I wouldn't be surprised if this type was some sort of local imitation from around 1244. The very late Chaulukya types usually have small eyes, and the Vaghela types have tiny little dots for eyes, if anything at all.
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 Posted 06/07/2018  04:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if this type was some sort of local imitation from around 1244


Thats really cool! I hadn't thought of that and will look into it a bit more ...

Thanks for your time Steve really appreciated...Paul
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 Posted 12/28/2018  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one just arrived...Only 3 bucks! Approx 17/18mm dia. 4.03gr

Looks to be from Finns Series 1.2 - Chavadas of Gujarat.
Only difference I can see is the back line of the head is more vertical..
I haven't caught it in the photo but seems to have a high silver content...

Edited by Palouche
12/28/2018 08:05 am
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