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Two more Byzantine scyphates needing correct ID

 
 
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 Posted 03/13/2018  10:02 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here are two more bronze scyphate Byzantine coins, attributed by the previous owner to Theodore Comnenus, Ducas of Thessalonia. However, I haven't found a match in the Wildwinds database and suspect this attribution is incorrect. Will greatly appreciate any help. Because I just posted two coins yesterday, I will call these coins 3 and 4.

Coin 3: weight 1.26 g, max diam 23.4 mm








Coin 4: weight 3.46 g, max diam 32.2 mm




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 Posted 03/13/2018  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the first one is Isaac Comenus and the other is from the Latin Rulers era 1204-1261.

Just for general information. The obverse is the convex side (side with Christ or Mary).
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 Posted 03/13/2018  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! That gives me some leads to follow.
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 Posted 03/14/2018  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've spent a little time reviewing more photos in the Wildwinds database for several rulers,. Based on the delta E C pi and partial O on the upper right reverse of coin 1, and the appearance of the jeweled cloak, I believe the first one may be SB 1964, a billon aspron trachy of Manuel 1. Of course there are many similar coins and I could be mistaken. Still haven't found a match in this database for the second one.

Link to Wildwinds does not works, Dane does not allow hotlinking to her site.
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 Posted 03/14/2018  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's sometimes difficult to ID just from a picture there are always variations with every coin. I think you might be correct on the first coin.
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 Posted 03/14/2018  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It certainly helps to have the coin in hand, to see it in different angles and lighting. Photos are often not too clear.
In any case it helps to post it here, to stir up discussion and ideas. I certainly appreciate your input.
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 Posted 03/14/2018  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the second coin, after looking at a lot of photos at the Wildwinds site, I'm going with SB 2062, of Theodore 1. There is variability of type SB 2062, and the busts of Christ and the ruler generally match. They also match the second coin from my previous post, which was identified as SB 2062, with some matching writing.

On the second coin in this post there is a lambda visible to the right, which is part of the inscription given for this coin (of course many other coins can have lambdas too). For now I'm satisfied with this attribution, though if someone wants to suggest a better attribution I'll certainly be interested to hear.
Edited by Seeker55
03/14/2018 8:06 pm
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 Posted 03/14/2018  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent, your research paid off. I agree with your attribution.
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 Posted 03/14/2018  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@seeker, while I only have a couple of similar coins, these ones that you are posting have great remaining detail!
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 03/14/2018  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, I appreciate everyone's support in the difficult task of attributing these coins. Just posting them and having a discussion gives me some direction and inspires me to put more effort into it. Best of luck to all on the site!
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 Posted 03/15/2018  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, these have remarkably good detail after 800 years. I sometimes wonder who has owned ancient or medieval coins in the past, and if they are in high grade am grateful that they took good care of them.
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 Posted 03/15/2018  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Years ago I bought a large group of these coins for $7.00 each, regrettably I sold most of them.

Here is a Manuel I from my collection.



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 Posted 03/15/2018  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Seeker55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin! Legible and plenty of detail. I don't have any that look silvery, mine all look coppery even though listed as billon aspron (mine must have very low silver content).
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 Posted 03/15/2018  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The silver content is very low I can't recall how much but most of the coins look copper. This one still has some of the silver wash left.
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