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Info needed on strike through probability (ATB Quarter)  
 

 
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 Posted 04/14/2018  12:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Waynoah83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***

This is just a general question about the probability/liklyhood of strike throughs, specifically grease strike throughs,happening on the same coin in the same place. A couple months ago I found a pretty cool 2017 ATB Ellis Island quarter with what the consensus on here said was more than likely a grease strike through. Since then I have found two more with the same area affected, with 2 of them being almost identical and the other to a lesser degree. My question is when this generally occurs does it usually affect the same areas on certain issues, is it usually random, could it possibly be that I happened to get multiple quarters that we're struck in sequence on the same die, or possibly all of the above. I know it might be hard to give a difinitive answer so please understand I'm just asking for opinions on the matter. I have a few different strike throughs but besides quarters pre 1999 I haven't really come across a lot of coins with the same issues on the same exact area. Granted the state and ATB Quarters are a lot more detailed in their designs than some of the older coins. Any info or directions to where I could learn more about this is much appreciated. I forgot to mention the quarters are also all Philly mints. Here's some pics too just for some additional info. Thanks in advance for what I'm sure will be great info.



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 Posted 04/14/2018  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waynoah83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In case I didn't put enough info in the original post, the first pic is of the same area of a Ellis Island ATB that is normal and the next three are three different examples. I didn't post full pics of both sides of the coin because I'm not asking for help with a specific identification. If you would like full pics just ask and I'll be happy to oblige. Thanks again.
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 Posted 04/14/2018  01:13 am  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A strike through grease is caused by the diamond paste, and greases involved in polishing the dies to prolong their life. This material along with the metal removed from polishing sometimes gets stuck in the incused die devices. Upon repeated pressure from striking, this hard material is packed even harder, clogging the openings. And yes it stays there, until it may fall out as a "grease plug" and be stamped into a coin or just changed out with a replacement die.

Remember, the devices on the die are reversed image. the "waves" missing there are very shallow, more so than the people who are larger, deeper and more noticeable if something gets pushed in there when wiping the die face.


Edited by Crazyb0
04/14/2018 01:17 am
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 Posted 04/14/2018  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waynoah83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty familiar with the process that happens when a die gets filled with grease or some other material and causes the issue. Like I said, I was told back when I first picked up the hobby and did my research and have since seen a lot of diff examples of all diff kinds. I especially like the strike through involving a piece of thread somehow. I appreciate the info nonetheless. I guess I'm mainly just wondering is it more likely that this is just an area prone to grease or whatever build up or is it more plausible that I have somehow miraculously managed to find a few coins struck on the same die. I get the fact that they could have all been rolled and sent out together and being that they were maybe sent to the same bank they would be in the same area. It's just that I got one in a bank roll, one in change and the other from my works cash drawer. Obviously they are all in the same area so I guess its possible. Like I said, just wondering if it has more to do with the coin being more susceptible in that area, if that's even something that is knowable.
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 Posted 04/14/2018  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waynoah83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I am always very long winded.
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 Posted 04/14/2018  03:32 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know how it happens, but a series of grease strike-throughs can be had. I had one ( inherited) and ended up selling them as a set for more than four cents (semi-regret). The evidence is here:

http://goccf.com/t/275494
Bad puns make me [sic].

My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
Edited by spruett001
04/14/2018 03:33 am
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 Posted 04/14/2018  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Waynoah83,
You have great photos,what are you using? What is your exact set up,make model of camera,lighting,etc?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 04/14/2018  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fantastic photos. Not much more I can add.
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 Posted 04/14/2018  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Waynoah83, if your inquiring if other causes are plausible, I'll try and explain my approach. The area in question obviously shows some weakness or wear.

Seems to extend into the dock. The images to me suggests it might be raised. If so it could suggest a die polishing issue. The area in question is at or close to field level. Also the 1st large image on the tip of the mans cap bill may show remnants from a die clash. See overlay.

If not raised then grease is probable. Grease fill will tend to displace material away not allowing a proper fill in.

Lastly I take into consideration what is behind or opposite an affected area. In this case one of the deepest part of the bust is opposite. Not seen as many issues with quarters as they use a few more tons of pressure to strike coins.

Commonly found on early 1970 cents using planchets in spec, they often show weakness opposite the bust due to the bust taking up the resources. When filled or nearly filled the devices opposite the bust have the ability to finish needed backfill.

I only mention it because the weakness opposite the bust is often referred to a struck through grease when in fact most cases the needed length of strike or required tonnage pressure was not present to complete the backfill process. Thanks, Doug.

Images from the US Mint.
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
Backup data often or good luck with the recovery process..... SME advice!
Edited by Halo1st
04/14/2018 12:53 pm
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 Posted 04/14/2018  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I now see what you are looking at. There maybe an issue with feeder finger damage on that area. I would like to see the full coin to see if the outside ring area is also affected? It so it maybe that it is this, or it was this if there is nothing visible on this area of the ring. It might be like the Shield cent recently that the sub/shallow devices were affected with this damage? (deeper devices would not be affected) Also the area in which this happened, is also a target area for doubled dies. (these would be raised)

Here is an image from the Mint what a normal one should look like:

Looks like some polishing did take place weakening some devices. The face of the Boy would probably where I would for doubled devices on a DDR. (nothing listed yet though)
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
04/14/2018 2:11 pm
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 Posted 04/14/2018  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe it is feeder finger damage.
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 Posted 04/14/2018  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also noticed in the 1st large image the gap between the man right arm and ladies left arm. May also suggest die polishing or did not strike up. Thanks, Doug.
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
Backup data often or good luck with the recovery process..... SME advice!
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 Posted 04/18/2018  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waynoah83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the info guys. As to what setup I use you might be surprised but its just my cell phone. I set it to macro and take the pic under really bright light and adjust my shutter setting to around -.4. then I zoom in a little using my stock image editor and crop until I get below the 300kb limit. I have my settings turned up to the highest resolution so that's why when I crop the image there's not much left of the coin because of how big the original file is. It took a little tweaking but that works the best for me. Btw it's a ZTE pro max phone. I got it for free from metro for signing up with them. It has a 16mp CAM with an HD screen and 32 mb of RAM and a 16 gb hard drive. Beat phone I ever bought especially for the price. I've had it a year and have Zero complaints about it other than it has a very large wcreen, but know I'm used to it and couldn't imagine goin back to something smaller.
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 Posted 04/18/2018  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lighting is fine. Not much glare and the light and shadows work good for you.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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