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Rare 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter Pattern Discovered, Heading for Auction

 
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 Posted 07/08/2018  10:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CCFPress to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
An extremely rare 1916 Standing Liberty quarter pattern was recently certified by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and will soon be heading to auction. The coin, graded PF61, is only the second specimen known to exist. The proof coin was formerly graded and slabbed by another third-party coin grading company as a regular 1916 Standing Liberty quarter – itself a series rare key date – but was identified by a numismatist at Heritage Auctions as something rarer still than an “ordinary” 1916 Standing quarter. The coin was subsequently submitted to NGC, where the coin was confirmed to be the rare pattern.



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 Posted 07/08/2018  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to know who dropped the ball on this originally.
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 Posted 07/08/2018  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC + Heritage = A lot more $. I hope the Heritage finder got a great bonus
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 Posted 07/08/2018  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aristarchus123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a story lurking here:

"The piece was first submitted to PCGS by Heritage and returned to the auction house by PCGS in a holder with a label that identified it as Genuine, Uncirculated Details, Repaired, without attribution as a pattern"

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...ributed.html



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 Posted 07/08/2018  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the article and additional information. My birthday happens to be the same date this will be auctioned.

Do you think I can get my wife to win it as a birthday present?
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 Posted 07/08/2018  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aristarchus123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if the controversies over the coin will affect the auction price. PCGS reportedly gives it a details grade, NCG identifies it as a proof, and the expert quoted in the article says it is not a proof.
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 Posted 07/08/2018  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Posted - Today :12M ago
Thanks for the article and additional information. My birthday happens to be the same date this will be auctioned.

Do you think I can get my wife to win it as a birthday present?

sure , just tell her she can put it on charge and have 30 years to pay it off .

Don't take life too seriously and remember it is just a passing fad ......
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 Posted 07/08/2018  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting article. Here is a graphic showing the differences the article mentions. Also pointed out is the wider rim of the pattern.


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 Posted 07/08/2018  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
sure , just tell her she can put it on charge and have 30 years to pay it off .


Just not Citibank.
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 Posted 07/08/2018  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder if the controversies over the coin will affect the auction price. PCGS reportedly gives it a details grade, NCG identifies it as a proof, and the expert quoted in the article says it is not a proof.


The "expert" they quoted won't have any impact on the price at all. The discrepancy maybe but probably not. Bidders will do extra due dilligence with it and those that think NGC got it wrong will stay away and those that think they got it right will go hard if they want it.

There's a strong chance it gets crossed back over after being won anyway.
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 Posted 07/09/2018  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"The piece was first submitted to PCGS by Heritage and returned to the auction house by PCGS in a holder with a label that identified it as Genuine, Uncirculated Details, Repaired, without attribution as a pattern"



Quote:
There's a strong chance it gets crossed back over after being won anyway.

Interesting thought.

But I don't understand why anyone would want a coin already labeled by NGC graders as a proof to send it to the company whose three graders evaluating this coin totally missed seeing what they were looking at - a rare pattern coin - in the first place. Couldn't there also be a chance the PCGS graders would stick to their guns anyway and relabel it as before?



Of course PCGS might just decide they made a mistake and label it for what it is.

Another thing: I can see how, let's say, a Morgan dollar expert (for example) might not see the obvious extra leaves, but a (three!) professional grader(s)?


- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
Edited by Earle42
07/09/2018 5:04 pm
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 Posted 07/09/2018  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heymikep to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Of course PCGS might just decide they made a mistake and label it for what it is.

Another thing: I can see how, let's say, a Morgan dollar expert (for example) might not see the obvious extra leaves, but a (three!) professional grader(s)?


I have sent quite a few coins to PCGS lately, actually have 20 there that should have been completed last week but still waiting, and I am losing faith in them. I have sent coins to both NGC and PCGS and it seems like they do not have the time to really look at each coin. The grades on some that I am getting are just not even close and they have missed varieties as well. I have had to go back and fight with each of them and prove they were wrong before they would correct them. I feel like they have too many new people not trained well enough and too many coins to grade to get it right all the time.
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 Posted 07/09/2018  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can see near future there would be a article on how PCGS missed in attributing a pattern piece, and more collectors will be submitting their coins to NGC for grading. This is a major hiccup for PCGS not spotting it.

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 Posted 07/09/2018  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But I don't understand why anyone would want a coin already labeled by NGC graders as a proof to send it to the company whose three graders evaluating this coin totally missed seeing what they were looking at - a rare pattern coin - in the first place.


It was missed by everyone for a 100 years. it wasn't just PCGS nor was that the first time it was sold or sold at auction. When you look through it Heritage missed it the first time too, it just happened to get in front of the right person who noticed it.

As for why, a lot of the big time coins NGC brags about end up getting crossed when they are won. It happened with the Paquet gold double eagle, the Confederate half and cent ect.
There's two potential buyers I can think of that if they want it they will win it and both would almost certainly try and cross it if they win.


Quote:
Couldn't there also be a chance the PCGS graders would stick to their guns anyway and relabel it as before?


Not on that one. That's going to be a 6/7 figure coin. It won't get cracked and submitted raw. It would only be removed from the holder if they agreed it was a pattern. They could decline to cross it but there's almost no chance someone will crack it out to submit raw.

It should cross I would think unless a is it a pattern or isn't it dispute arises, the grade doesn't matter for something like that so that shouldn't be an issue.
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 Posted 07/10/2018  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Check oih82w8's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is so cool on so many levels...still way outta my league!

How about the reverse? Is there anything noteworthy about it?

Here is expanded story with additional comparison images.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...ted.all.html
oih82w8 = "Oh I Hate To Wait"
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Edited by oih82w8
07/10/2018 1:31 pm
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