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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition!

 
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United States
12770 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2019  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
so you have an opportunity to add it.


Ok interesting thought. I haven't done that before although I do benefit from others' uploading when I use this website for research.
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Belgium
1004 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2019  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1599 here is another jeton, from Dordrecht, hoping this story told backwards is not too boring.

Dugniolle.3468 'Spanish military planning in Maastricht'



Obv. Cardinal Andries and general Mendoza meet to plan new military operations in the Netherlands INVITO NVMINE CIC IC XCIX
Rev. Cardinal Andries leads the Spanish army onwards to war 'Rhine Expedition'; but his progress is hindered by the hand of Jahweh FRVSTRA CONATVR INPIVS


Edited by 1c5d7n5m
08/17/2019 09:58 am
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Norway
310 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2019  02:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trojak / 3 Groschen Poland.

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Belgium
1004 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2019  06:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
below the rare jeton I like most of all

1599, Antwerpen 'marriage of Isabella Clara Eugenia, infante of Spain, and archduke Albert of Austria'



in 1598, when king Phillippe II of Spain died, Flanders and Brabant were heavily damaged by the atrocities of war that started in 1566, 30 years earlier! The city of Antwerp, which was so prosperous before 1566, suffered enormously. The marriage of the archdukes brought new hope for a ravaged country. The legend around the Lion of Brabant summarizes it well:

SPES ALTERA FLANDRIS





In the mean time the war front was up North, along the great rivers and along the east borders between the United Provinces and Germany. The armies of Maurice of Nassau and general Mendoza were trying to avoid open battle, laying siege to cities and other fortified strongholds like trying to catch pieces on a chess game. Below four jetons that summarize some of the events from 1598

Dugn.3441, Utrecht, crying out of the atrocities of war; the capture of the castle of Valkenstein by Mendoza who murdered count Ulrich personally. Normally, after capture of a place, the residents could leave the place unharmed (after payment of a handsome price).




Dugn.3446 and Dugn.3449, both from Dordrecht, showing the cat and mouse game of the two armies around Doesburg, a small town situated dangerously close to the heart of the United Provinces. Manoevering techniques of prince Maurits prevailed and the 'Garden of Holland' was not invaded again (like in 1572) by Spanish troops. Using tetragrammata on both sides of these jetons, it is clear that the United Provinces believed that a divine force helped them to win the war.




And finally a war propaganda jeton, Dugn.3441, from Dordrecht predicting that those who mess up with Jahweh will get their deserved punishment in the end.

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 Posted 08/18/2019  06:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the best year yet for your jetons, @1c5d.

On @giljan's coin...The trojaks minted in Riga are the only ones that do not have the Vasa coat of arms below the denomination III reverse. Instead, they have an image of a castle, (or city gate?) which is a traditional device for Duchy of Livonia, and reverse legend GROS ARG TRIP CIVI RIGE ("silver 3 groschen of the City of Riga") instead of GROS ARG TRIP R PO ("silver 3 groschen of the Kingdom of Poland") which we will see on trojaks from the crown mints.
Iger lists 4 main varieties for Riga, based on the punctuation in the obverse legend, specifically the use of the saltire. @giljan, yours looks like SIGxIIIxD. GxREXxPOxMxDxLI which is Iger R.98.1.b.a. (edited to correct they subtype)
Edited by tdziemia
08/18/2019 07:49 am
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 Posted 08/18/2019  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A pair of 1598 trojaks from the Poland-Lithuania commonwealth, illustrating the short-lived use (1598-1606) of letter mintmarks (and, along with @giljan's coin, the variety in Sigismund portraits across different mints):
Bydgoszcz (B after 98 at bottom of reverse):



Poznan (P in front of 98 at bottom of reverse); auction house photo, coin not yet received:
Edited by tdziemia
08/18/2019 06:44 am
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Belgium
1004 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2019  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
illustrating the short-lived use (1598-1606) of letter mintmarks


a similar system to the long lived French annotation of the mint cities
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Belgium
1004 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2019  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
in the Low Countries, both South and North, the mint marks were symbols; moreover, the province was usually mentioned in the Legend and the provincial coat-of-arms is somewhere represented, often a the centered image

here is an example, a 1598 Leeuwendaalder (Lion Dollar) from Zeeland, with a Middelburg mintmark (castle tower reverse 12h), the Lion-in-the-sea as the provincial coat-of-arms and mention of Zeeland (ZEL) in the legend on the obverse


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 Posted 08/18/2019  07:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 3 Groschen from Livonia dated AD 1598. More Siggy...



"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
08/18/2019 07:57 am
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United States
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 Posted 08/18/2019  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really like that symbol for Zeeland!

For this timeframe of the Poland trojaks, we have the mints using a combination of identifiers:
- Livonian mint (Riga) uses the castle, and "CIVI RIGE" in legend reverse
- Lithuanian mint (Vilnius) uses the local mintmaster's symbol, and "GROS ARG TRIP M D L" reverse (silver 3 groschen of Grand DUchy of Lithuania). We will see one of these tomorrow.
- Crown mints (Olkusz, Poznan, Bydgoszcz, Malbork, Wschowa, Lublin) use combination of the marks of the royal treasurer and the local mintmaster 1588-1597, then all but Olkusz switch to a letter.

Rather confusing!

Edited by tdziemia
08/18/2019 11:07 am
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Belgium
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 Posted 08/18/2019  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1 solidus
1598
Riga mint

Sigismund Wasa (1587-1632)
King of Poland, Lithuania and Sweden
SOLIDUS+CIVI+RIGENS+98
SOLIDUS CIVITATIS RIGENSIS
solidus of the city Riga
SIG:III:D:G:REX:PO:D:LI
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United States
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 Posted 08/18/2019  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It seems the Riga mint was very busy in the 1590s.
The Riga trojaks must have been minted in large quantities. Each year from 1590-99 the most common variety does not earn an "R," and there are many on the market, including some graded MS, most of which are not terribly expensive for such condition https://www.coinarchives.com/w/resu...&results=100
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 Posted 08/18/2019  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1598 -- Duchy of Livonia / Riga, 3 groschen

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 Posted 08/18/2019  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
(sneaking this one in a day late)

1599 Charles IX of Sweden as Regent

1/2 Ore with Tetragrammaton
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 Posted 08/18/2019  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1598 Sigismund III Vasa, as King of Sweden

4 ore
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