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Are We On The Verge Of A Cashless Society?

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 Posted 05/05/2020  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
till (n.) "cashbox," mid-15c., from Anglo-French tylle "compartment," Old French tille "compartment".
I always associated the word with British English, whereas "cash register" is more common in American English.

The old "works without power" argument in favor of cash is actually of fairly limited use. But most of us have been in a store or a fast-food restaurant where the power is temporarily out, and you see all the clerks under the age of 30 looking clueless while the older employees make change.

It reminds me of the youtube videos where a millennial tries to make a phone call using a rotary dial phone.

updE5LVe6tg
Edited by PacoMartin
05/05/2020 08:13 am
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 Posted 05/26/2020  04:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Will the US ever come closer to the Euro distribution of banknotes by denomination? Will the $50 ever become popular? Will a $200 banknote be issued?

20 12.2 notes per inhabitant
50 33.7
100 9.3
200 1.5
500 1.3 not being produced in the second series


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 Posted 05/26/2020  07:51 am  Show Profile   Check BrandaBob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BrandaBob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I honestly don't understand why our $50 note is so unpopular, almost as much so as the $2, which is ironic because ideally they'd be the two most useful, most practical denominations in commerce for vending machines and small scale grocery shopping respectively. It's funny how they happen to get around so little.

But at least there's more $100s in circulation now
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 Posted 05/30/2020  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
People often talk about the fact that cash works even if the power is down. But you still need the ATM to get the cash in the first place. Plus the high school grad behind the counter doesn't know how to make change.


Quote:
Power goes out and the till will not open for cash either.


It all depends on the technology that's deployed...
The retail shop where I work part-time lost power last week. The register would not work, but the credit card reader would (it is wired to the internet, and I suppose is battery powered or has battery backup?). So we could use a calculator instead of the register (everyone has a calculator on their phone that can sum a transaction and add the tax). Big retailers have all the payment options combined in the same piece of technology, and may be able to manually override the cash register electronics to keep the register open and run by cash during a power outage.

95% of our transactions are plastic, so it's more important to have credit card capability than the cash register.

As for some of the other discussion points, yes, I've also wondered why we don't have more $50 bills in circulation. I do see them occasionally, and for those who do use cash, I imagine they would be useful.
On the other hand, I do not understand the need for a $200 bill.

Finally, I am a great fan of "self-checkout" lines in the grocery store, home center, etc., and find it curious that change is only given in $5 and $20 notes, never $10 or (if you feed a $100 note) $50.
Edited by tdziemia
05/30/2020 09:36 am
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 Posted 05/30/2020  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
... I've also wondered why we don't have more $50 bills in circulation. I do see them occasionally, and for those who do use cash, I imagine they would be useful ...


Q/ And how would you like your cash ?

A/ Fifties, if you've got them on sale.

Dumb Old Guy Joke, to be sure, but that's me.

I also buy rolls of quarters to feed the parking meters, as I am loathe to put any card into an unattended / easily hacked / easily vandalized card reader.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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 Posted 05/30/2020  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I honestly don't understand why our $50 note is so unpopular...

I blame ATMs, or rather, people who don't want to pay for upgrading ATMs to dispense them. When ATMs first came out, $50 was a lot more money than it is now, and they'd probably also have to support $10s to make the math work better. Just giving out $20s is easier.


Quote:
But you still need the ATM to get the cash in the first place.

That's why emergency preparation lists tell us to keep cash on hand. In the event of a major disaster, you can still engage in commerce with just cash as long as the retailer also does just cash. Calculator, pen and paper, and a simple cash box is all you need for this. (Security is another matter altogether.)
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 Posted 05/31/2020  05:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrpapageorgio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I honestly don't understand why our $50 note is so unpopular, almost as much so as the $2, which is ironic because ideally they'd be the two most useful, most practical denominations in commerce for vending machines and small scale grocery shopping respectively. It's funny how they happen to get around so little.

But at least there's more $100s in circulation now


A lot of the US Bank ATMs by me will give out 50s. I know 50's aren't popular in casinos and plenty of gaming establishments as they're seen as bad luck. The two main origins of this superstition I've heard is 1. Grant was a terrible businessman/bad with money. 2. Bugsy Siegel (the man that built the Flamingo for the mob in Vegas) had three $50 bills on him when he was shot.
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 Posted 05/31/2020  06:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With what's on the horizon, been stocking up. All cash user. Been pulling $50's for the last 5 years or so. Since the scare, only currency I've been able to get at the drive-thru are $50's, nothing smaller. Not much of an inconvenience.
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 Posted 06/05/2020  03:46 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was a report on BBC Radio yesterday about a small, privately-run toll bridge over a canal in the North of England. The toll has been fixed at 12 pence (around 15 cents) for many years and must be paid in cash. In March the bridge operators waived the toll, but this week they reintroduced it, and motorists are complaining about the possible risk to health by touching coins!

The BBC asked an eminent medical expert, and he said that handling coins represented no greater danger than touching door handles, handrails or push-buttons on road crossings, and that coins were probably safer than credit card machines where you need to input your PIN.

He also said that handling coins with a high copper content could actually be beneficial, as copper was a natural antibacterial. So, using any UK coins other than post-2010 5p and 10p pieces (which are nickel-plated steel and contain no copper) should be safe!
Edited by NumisRob
06/05/2020 03:50 am
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 Posted 06/05/2020  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A hacking, erasing and total blackout of all the monetary digital accounts, complete media and internet shutdown.
Not too many years back, people scoffed at doomsday scenarios. Not so funny anymore.
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 Posted 06/11/2020  04:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
mrpapageorgio

Quote:
I honestly don't understand why our $50 note is so unpopular, almost as much so as the $2, which is ironic because ideally they'd be the two most useful, most practical denominations in commerce for vending machines and small scale grocery shopping respectively. It's funny how they happen to get around so little.


A lot of the US Bank ATMs by me will give out 50s. I know 50's aren't popular in casinos and plenty of gaming establishments as they're seen as bad luck. The two main origins of this superstition I've heard is 1. Grant was a terrible businessman/bad with money. 2. Bugsy Siegel (the man that built the Flamingo for the mob in Vegas) had three $50 bills on him when he was shot.


The Bank For International Settlements for their annual report at the end of 2018 revealed the "Stock of money available for payments" in the US. Expressing the statistics as number of banknotes per inhabitant (total 128.5 banknotes per inhabitant).

41.0 $100 - It is estimated that only 25% circulate domestically
5.4 $50
28.8 $20
6.1 $10
9.4 $5
37.8 $1

The $2 banknote is not reported as they do not circulate. I think the mythology about the $50 banknote and Busy Siegals is just stories. Americans, Brits and Canadians simply see the twenty as the perfect size for routine purchases. But they largely believe that the fifty is just pointless. If you are going to carry a serious wad of cash, then you require hundreds.

The Euro Area, Australia, Swiss, Swedes, Norwegians and Danes think the twenty is too small, and they tend to stock their ATMs with fifties (or 500s in Sweden and Norway).

The $200 would probably be regarded as pointless for much the same reason. Serious users of cash would like to see the $500 revived.

The production of the $100 is starting to exceed rational quantities when it is more popular than the $1.

My personal feeling is that the $1000 denomination (note or a type of casino chip) with built in RFID is the way to go. Legitimate users of cash should be entitled to have a $1000 note, but the only practical way to do that is to give up some of your anonymity and the notes should be traceable. I also think that the $1000 banknote should be limited in quantity (to say a billion notes).

The Swiss disagree with me and cheerfully circulate relative large numbers of banknotes worth 1000CHf ~$1000. They have no RFID installed, but they do have 13 individual anti-counterfeiting devices built into the notes.
Edited by PacoMartin
06/11/2020 3:12 pm
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 Posted 06/11/2020  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Canadian government announced on March 25, 1986, that the new dollar coin would be launched the following year as a replacement for the dollar bill, which would be phased out.

The US BEP produced 114 billion $1 banknotes over 33.92 years (March 1984-January 2018) the majority of which have been destroyed and replaced with the 2017-2017A serie.

The US penny and nickel are stupid as they cost more to make than they are worth.

The highest priority of a cashless society should be to replace coins and dollar bills with a card (similar to a mass transit card) or a phone app where your change gets added.

This process is the goal of South Korea. They are not going after the big banknotes which raises questions about privacy and the ability to store money outside of a bank. They are after the coins and small value banknotes.
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 Posted 06/11/2020  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Well if you wanted to buy prepping supplies and keep it off the radar, then cash IS the way to go. In a cashless society you are an open book, anyone with a bit of authority and a bit of curiosity can easily find out how much you spent, where you spent it, who you spent it with and probably what you bought.

If you ask me, cashless a system would put way too much power in the hands of people who shouldn't have it nor deserve that kind of power.
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 Posted 06/11/2020  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
In a cashless society you are an open book, anyone with a bit of authority and a bit of curiosity can easily find out how much you spent, where you spent it, who you spent it with and probably what you bought.


Well that is probably true with commercial bank money where records can be requested by the police.

Since there is no central bank digital currency (CBDC) yet, it is unclear what the rules will be. Obviously CBDC won't allow unlimited transactions. Even with banknotes you are required to fill out an IRS form for cash transactions over $10,000 or report if you have $10,000 in cash when you board an international flight.

I suspect that CBDC will not keep track of every transaction since most people will prefer credit cards where charges can be disputed. At the same time, I doubt very much CBDC will permit anonymous transactions up to $10,000.

My guess is that CBDC is going to be untraceable up to $1000/day. If it is not, then it won't be serious competition to cash. But if it is more than that it will become a serious way to launder money.


Quote:
Expressing the stock of money in the US as number of banknotes per inhabitant (total 128.5 banknotes per inhabitant).

41.0 $100 - It is estimated that only 25% circulate domestically
5.4 $50
28.8 $20
6.1 $10
9.4 $5
37.8 $1


In contrast to the US, Sweden circulates 20.3 banknotes per inhabitant in the following denominations (quantities are banknotes per inhabitant).

0.3 : 1000 kr ~ $100 (traditional denomination 1874)
8.3 : 500 kr ~ $50 (introduced 1985)
2.3 : 200 kr ~ $20 (introduced 2015)
2.8 : 100 kr ~ $10 (traditional denomination 1874)
1.7 : 50 kr ~ $5 (traditional denomination 1874)
4.9 : 20 kr ~ $2 (introduced 1991) In most of Europe this denomination is a coin

The $100 equivalent is negligible circulation. Since you can't get cash at a bank teller window, it is nearly impossible to get this denomination.

Despite the low cash society in Sweden, the $20 equivalent is very unpopular. Obviously the $1 equivalent is a coin.

The extremely low circulation numbers of the $5, $10, and $20 equivalent seems to indicate that most people are not getting change at a store for payments with their $50 equivalent banknote. Presumably the $50 banknotes withdrawn from ATMs and are used for person-to-person debts in multiples of $50, or for gifts, or to store some money under the bed in case of widespread disruption in power or communications.
Edited by PacoMartin
06/12/2020 12:07 am
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 Posted 06/14/2020  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The article below is of interest since Spain is part of the Euro Area. Prior to adopting the Euro the largest denomination banknote in the national currency of many nations was well below 100
... initial EURO nations
76.22 : 500 French franc
60.10 : 10,000 Spanish peseta
51.65 : 100,000 Italian lira(4 years prior)
49.88 : 10,000 Portuguese escudo
29.35 : 10,000 Greek drachma
... later countries
46.59 : 20 Maltese lira
41.73 : 10,000 Slovenian tolar
34.17 : 20 Cypriot pound
31.96 : 500 Estonian kroon
33.19 : 1,000 Slovak koruna


France and Finland, in particular, had very low rates of cash circulation, but the ECB ordered the countries to produce disproportionally large amounts of cash and much larger denominations.

A large percentage of the high value Euro notes moved into Spain to support the drug and human trafficking trade.

It is difficult to understand how Spain will be able to move towards cashlessness and stay in the Euro Area.


Quote:
Spain's Government Plans to Cut Cash Payments & Gradually Eliminate Cash to Move Towards Cashless Society
By Pepi Sappal - 13 June 2020 @ 03:131

Spain's coalition Government plans to cut cash payments and aims to gradually eliminate cash, in a bid to move towards a cashless society.

THE Government's Ministry of Finance plans to cut cash payments from 2,500 to 1,000 in a bid to fight fraud. The socialist party tried to reduce the maximum limit for cash payments from 2,500 to 1,000 in early 2019, but failed. However, the new coalition government has indicated that it plans to re-propose the idea and get cash payments reduced to 1,000.

It has also indicated plans to gradually eliminate cash and wants to discuss the issue in Congress. According to government sources, the decision to gradually eliminate cash was made during the pandemic, when the public was encouraged to use cards and make online payments and avoid cash payments. Although a date to discuss this issue has not been decided, Spain's socialist party PSOE said it is open to discuss the topic with the other groups in the Finance Commission to start the ball rolling.

info@euroweeklynews.com 2018 EWN Media Group.


The ECB was pressured into eliminating new 500 banknotes so they printed a very large number of 200 banknotes from the new series. Could they be pressured into giving up this denomination as well?
Edited by PacoMartin
06/14/2020 7:38 pm
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