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Moderator
United States
18178 Posts |
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
21767 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
@gallienus, thanks for another super set of thalers! Quote:
Earlier I saw in this thread some explanation of typical thaler weights, finenesses, and also how many denars / schillings were in a thaler. Unfortunately I can't find that exact post. If anyone could help I'd appreciate it. On thaler weight and purity and the relation to smaller denominations, here is info pulled from various tables in Gumowski, p. 207-220. On each line is some combination of Ruler & year/Thaler wt/Purity/Equivalent in groschen (always in that order, though not all the info for each entry). Starting in 1700s it gets difficult as the groschen is no longer in silver. Sigismund II Lithuania 1564 27.86 g, 73.4% = 30 Lith gro. Stefan Bathory 1578...........28.24 g., 87.5% = 38 Groschen Stefan Bathory 1580-1601...28.83 g., 84.4% = 36 Gr. and Sigismund III Sigismund III 1608..................................= 40 Gr. Sigismund III 1620..................................= 60 Gr. Sigismund III 1622..................................= 80 Gr. Sigismund III 1628..................................= 90 Gr. Jan Casimir 1650.............28.8 g., 87.5% Jan Casimire 1668..................................= 108 Gr. Jan Sobieski Danzig 1685....29.46 g., 87.5% Monetary reform of 1717 1 Thaler = 8 Gulden = 240 Gr(Cu) Augustus III 1752-63..........29.23 g., 80% Stanislaw AUgust 1766.......28.06 g., 83.3% Stanislaw AUgust 1794.......24.10 g., 68.9% Edited by tdziemia
12/01/2018 11:07 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
@spence, that's a nice run of copper schillings! I was just looking at a lot on the WAGO auction that has one of these. And I am very late on commenting on a number of @giedrius' posts, and wondering if there is another book coming on varieties/errors in 17th c. silver Lithuanian schillings?  Edited by tdziemia
12/01/2018 11:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
As mentioned upthread, the abdication of Jan Casimir in 1668 marked the end of the Swedish Vasa dynasty. The Polish-Lithuanian parliament next elected Michael Korybut Wisniowiecki, the son of a powerful Polish noble. His reign would be short, as he died at the age of 33 in 1673. From a political viewpoint, his reign was marked by squabbling between pro-Hapsburg and pro-French factions in the nobility, and the invasion of Poland by the combined forces of the Ottoman Empire and Cossacks in 1672. From a numismatic viewpoint, the only accessible coins of MIchel Korybut produced were schillings (Gdansk 1670, Torun 1671, Elbing 1671-73). Other than these, there are rare ducats and double ducats. He was succeeded by Jan Sobieski, a military leader who, after initial losses, began to successfully repel the invasion in the southeast, starting from 1673, and would eventually gain renown leading the army that repulsed the Ottomans at Vienna in 1683. ... and who left a much richer numismatic legacy than his predecessor  Edited by tdziemia
12/01/2018 5:43 pm
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Valued Member
Lithuania
363 Posts |
@tdziemia „wondering if there is another book coming on varieties/errors in 17th c. silver Lithuanian schillings?" Thank You! Who knows....but our next issue will be the second edition of „Early Lithuanian Half-groats 1495-1529" in year or two or maybe a book about all the Lithuanian coinage of Alexander Jagiellon and Sigismund the Old. Working on it.
Catalogue of Lithuanian half-groats 1495-1529 http://goccf.com/t/282866 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
Please continue to post any remaining coins of Jan Casimir, or other related coins (as we have seen, there were occupation coins under Swedish authority ... maybe some others?) as we move to the next reign. I will start with this 1683 szostak/sechsgroschen of Jan Sobieski, the year of the Battle of Vienna. Bydgoszcz mint, Kop. 1963.   Edited by tdziemia
12/02/2018 07:10 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4560 Posts |
Nice addition tdziemia  |
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3307 Posts |
Quote:
as we have seen, there were occupation coins under Swedish authority ... maybe some others? I think this nice(-ish) Swedish Livonian solidus from 1645 might well have been one of the first 17th century coins in my collection...   Livonia under Swedish occupation, Christina, solidus, 1645.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
I would call that a VERY nice one IN the other thread, there was a comment on Livonia, and how in the 1560s (I think), a portion came under Polish control. When Sigismund III finally made peace with Sweden in 1629, he had lost Livonia. Sweden would rule it until the early 1700s when it came under Russian rule. (You probably know this history better than I do!) |
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Moderator
United States
18178 Posts |
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
Nice run of those sechsgroschen. I'm assuming the 1682 looks as nice in hand as in the photos. Looking through other examples (the WCN search function I learned from @giedrius), I agree that the weak strike is characteristic of this type. Also, whatever is causing the black pitting recurs with a lot of these. I am guessing that's a defect in the metal from which the planchets were cut, given that it has a directionality to it. As for the political commentary, maybe it would have been appropriate for Jan Casimir, but I think this guy was a pretty tough dude ... I'm thinking he was something like the Polish equivalent of Ike (military hero who became a political leader as well). When I got mine, (probably a dozen years ago), I didn't know that was a relatively well struck example. Now I realize I was lucky to get it (OK ... I also paid for some of that "luck"  ). Edited by tdziemia
12/02/2018 2:09 pm
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Moderator
United States
18178 Posts |
Quote:
I agree that the weak strike is characteristic of this type. Here is another example of the "chinless" portrait, also from 1682 AD:  
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
2162 Posts |
Very interesting thread! Not my area of collecting but just to let you know I've been following and learning..Thanks..  ..Paul |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4158 Posts |
Here is my last 17th century coin, a 1677 Ort of Jan Sobieski. I think it came from my LCS many years ago, and I have never gotten the Kopicki attribution, though a quick look at recent auction sales says there are at least three possibilities for 1677 orts with the concave sided shield: Kop. 1979, 1980, 1986. Will need to sort it out later. (Edit: Kop. 1980 is my best guess) In the meantime, let's also move on to our next ruler, and our next century!   Edited by tdziemia
12/10/2018 12:16 pm
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Replies: 150 / Views: 11,629 |
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Posted 12/01/2018 09:06 am
