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2019 West Point Premium Penny

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1763 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, we're just disagreeing. If someone is using dirty gloves or not holding a coin by the edge, then they're just doing it wrong. I've been handling my coins by the edges with clean gloves (and a mask) and have never had an ill effect. I'll put my ASE collection up against any out there.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spotting is a known mint issue. It happens to mints around the world (some more than others) and to raw coins as well. Suggesting that it's the TPGs faults for not wearing gloves and masks is inaccurate. If you want to wear gloves and a mask by all means go ahead that's your choice and your right to do so, but just because others don't doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong or doing any harm to the coins
Pillar of the Community
United States
1763 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm directly stating that the 3rd party grading services failing to properly handle coins is a factor that can, has and does damage coins. I've read several posts on this very forum regarding this. I've seen examples myself. Spotting can obviously be caused by factors at the mint too. Improper handling by dealers and collectors enters the equation as well. My expectation is that people being paid to grade coins should do everything reasonably possible to prevent damage to them. Breathing over a perfect looking coin and touching it with bare hands just isn't cutting it in my book when they can significantly reduce the odds of causing damage by taking a few reasonable precautionary steps.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3113 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Handling coins using gloves is NOT my concern as much as a face mask with atomized breath and the acidic microscopic droplets that people simply spread by breathing, THAT'S the problem as I see it...... PS, Just My Opinions Again... People also don't hold coins as they should too, BUT the first concern is by far, the invisible, down the road culprit to watch for......
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2019  10:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm directly stating that the 3rd party grading services failing to properly handle coins is a factor that can, has and does damage coins.


The TPGs DO properly handle coins.

Out of the 40+ million each have graded the number of times that the TPGs have actually damaged a coin is absolutely minuscule.


Quote:
Breathing over a perfect looking coin and touching it with bare hands just isn't cutting it in my book when they can significantly reduce the odds of causing damage by taking a few reasonable precautionary steps.


Gloves and masks not only would not significantly reduce the risk of something happening they would increase the risk and and carry lint and dust to the coins at a higher rate.

If someone wants to go overboard and uses gloves and masks by all means do it, but personal opinions don't change the fact that handing coins by the rims with clean hands is the proper way to do it.

They aren't sitting there mouth breathing over coins. You don't like the TPGs don't use them, but saying they're improperly handling coins is flat out wrong
Pillar of the Community
United States
4775 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am noticing that a number of eBay sellers are now not offering returns on the 2019W cent which is convenient as they suffer from spotting problems. If they are not accepting returns they should specify if the coins are spotted or not.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3113 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
People can agree to disagree. The fact remains that while the 'grader's " grade coins, they are touching and breathing during the process. That minuscule percent spoken about does happen and if one looks at older coins, the spots and oil marks are there.... I for one do NOT collect slabs, To each their own, Anyone thinking the oil and breath are not doing any harm, ENJOY!!! PS, Great topic, Does anyone really think the problems are minuscule, I don't collect them but have seen unslabbed spots after Years of OGP products have been checked out long after received, The mint's people seen in their videos do NOT wear masks.!!!............ Breath Away mine fellow collectors, LOL... Where would the marks and spots, that were not there when received come from, slab or OGP ? Just my opinion.....
Pillar of the Community
United States
1763 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If someone wants to go overboard and uses gloves and masks by all means do it, but personal opinions don't change the fact that handing coins by the rims with clean hands is the proper way to do it.

You have your personal opinion and I have mine. I think that I've pretty well explained where I'm coming from. People can wash their hands, but within a few minutes the oils will be back. The reason the 3rd party graders don't use gloves and masks is that there is expense involved, it makes the working conditions not a nice and the consequences of bare finger handling and breathing over coins is not immediately noticeable. Some may consider it good enough, but I don't agree.


Quote:
Gloves and masks not only would not significantly reduce the risk of something happening they would increase the risk and and carry lint and dust to the coins at a higher rate.

It is important to start with good quality gloves and masks. In my experience with transferring coins from proof sets and mint sets to airtite holders, I've literally only had a fiber land on a coin a couple of times. A gentle puff of air from a hand bulb pump removed the fiber with no ill effects.


Quote:
They aren't sitting there mouth breathing over coins. You don't like the TPGs don't use them, but saying they're improperly handling coins is flat out wrong

Yes they literally are sitting there mouth breathing and/or nose breathing over the coins. They even have their own videos showing them talking while having a group discussion about a coin. Miniscule water droplets and particles exit your nose and/or mouth every time you exhale and talk. This is how illnesses are spread. Just like wearing a mask can reduce the spread of illnesses, wearing a mask can reduce the odds of a miniscule water droplet or particle traveling through the air and landing on a coin. Nothing is 100%, but reducing the odds by taking reasonable steps isn't much to ask of a "professional" grading organization.
Pillar of the Community
United States
979 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  10:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wyzeguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am noticing that a number of eBay sellers are now not offering returns on the 2019W cent which is convenient as they suffer from spotting problems. If they are not accepting returns they should specify if the coins are spotted or not.


If you receive a coin with spots and it's not mentioned in the listing doesn't that fall under Ebays policy of guaranteed to get the correct item?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1800 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the listing doesn't say anything about spots (or the appearance in general), it won't fall under "not as described".

If the listing says "no spots" when there are, then it would be "not as described". A more general description like "stunning" or "pristine" is more on the edge. I was able to return a gold panda a few months ago through their Concierge service because of two large spots on a "beautiful" piece, but a low-dollar coin like this may be more subjective.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3113 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgans dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bret, Very clear, concise rational advice, I would say people have their opinions and that's what makes the world go around, Or is it flat!! lol... We all collect and do things a certain way, We all can agree to also disagree too..... Collect as You may...... :)
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That minuscule percent spoken about does happen and if one looks at older coins, the spots and oil marks are there....


Minuscule as in something like 1 in well over 100k. It's very very very rare. Older coins have been handled countless times before they ever made it to the grading room and much much more sloppy as in the old days people took "care" of their coins very differently.


Quote:
The reason the 3rd party graders don't use gloves and masks is that there is expense involved,


Nope, it's because it's unnecessary and they transfer dust at a higher rate and it makes it easier for them to drop coins. They spend more on coffee than they would on a trivial cost like gloves.


Quote:
Yes they literally are sitting there mouth breathing and/or nose breathing over the coins.




I don't care about changing your mind. You have it made up and want to try and make them sound like clueless buffoons who have no idea how to handle coins. The only reason I have even engaged you is because you are misrepresenting them to people that don't know any better.

Think whatever you want, the bottom line is gloves are completely unnecessary and so is a mask ESPECIALLY on classic circulated coins that have been handled countless times for decades already
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3722 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Got mine today. I cant believe the mint shows this coin no love.

Pillar of the Community
United States
1763 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
keith12, that one looks as good as the best one out of the five I received.


Quote:
I don't care about changing your mind. You have it made up and want to try and make them sound like clueless buffoons who have no idea how to handle coins. The only reason I have even engaged you is because you are misrepresenting them to people that don't know any better.

I have not misrepresented anything. They don't wear gloves and masks. I encourage anyone who doubts this to watch the videos that these companies produced themselves. I don't think they're clueless buffoons and never implied it. They simply don't take these precautions because their customers as a whole have not demanded it. You don't believe that their lack of taking these precautions can damage coins. I've seen evidence which tells me otherwise. We can just agree to disagree.

One important thing for collectors to keep in mind is that buying coins slabbed long ago reduces the odds that the coin will develop black spec spotting. If it hasn't happened in a year or more, the odds of it happening are far less when compared to a newly slabbed coin. Still, if you want a newly minted coin in a slab, I wouldn't be deterred because the odds are that it will be fine.


Quote:
Think whatever you want, the bottom line is gloves are completely unnecessary and so is a mask ESPECIALLY on classic circulated coins that have been handled countless times for decades already

I agree with you regarding classic circulated coins.
Moderator
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United States
108455 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2019  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Nope, it's because it's unnecessary and they transfer dust at a higher rate and it makes it easier for them to drop coins. They spend more on coffee than they would on a trivial cost like gloves.

Quote:
Think whatever you want, the bottom line is gloves are completely unnecessary and so is a mask ESPECIALLY on classic circulated coins that have been handled countless times for decades already
Quoted. For. Truth.
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