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1951 Lincoln Cent- "Re-engraved" ? Vs Normal Bangs

 
 
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 Posted 04/14/2019  10:54 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
1951 Lincoln Cent- "Re-engraved" vs Normal Bangs

I was looking through a mixed roll of 1951 P&D wheats. I noticed the area between the forehead and bangs were different and was hoping some of the knowledgeable folks here might shed some light on this for me.

Does anyone know if the 1951 LWC were re-engraved like the front of the lapel on the 1953 proofs? (Not like the channeling or Trenching http://www.error-ref.com/retouching...gn-elements/ on some coins which is incuse, but re-engraved which would be raised in relief.) Of the 14 coins (P&D) only 2 were "normal". The other 12 had the "re-engraving" on them.

Thanks in advance.

1rst three images are marked up showing the "Re-engraving" between the bangs and forehead that were on 12 of the coins in the roll. (It is raised, not incuse) Most (all?) of the coins also displayed the raised line down Lincoln's nose as well.

Next 3 are Coin1 (1952d) with Normal design at the bangs

Last 3 are Coin2 (1951p) with Normal design at the bangs








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 Posted 04/15/2019  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
New to me? Not sure of why it important?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/15/2019  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, thanks for looking and asking about it.
I'm just wondering if anyone knows if it is truly re-engraved or caused by something else. It is pretty strong and noticeable not to have caught someones attention before now.

I guess kind of like the CLAM and WAM varieties or transitional reverse (1988 RDV-006). They weren't popular until they became known.

I know some collectors love the 1953 re-engraved proofs (1953 1C Re-Engraved Design, FS-401), but that is the only re-engraved ones I'm familiar with and it seems to get attention. I'm sure having an FS# put it on peoples radar.

I just thought the '51's have been around a while and someone might have some insight. What was even more odd was that only 2 of the 14 coins in the mixed roll were normal design and 12 were "re-engraved".

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 Posted 04/15/2019  07:51 am  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
1973 D Lincoln Memorial cent With Recurring Die Subsidence Error Information. http://goccf.com/t/304624
Machine Doubling tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
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 Posted 04/15/2019  08:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did find out that Variety Vista lists a 1939 and 1950 that have a re-engraved variety (proof as well) along the front of the vest, like the 1953.
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 Posted 04/15/2019  08:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dbrablec to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow...great photos.
interesting post...

incredibly minute detail.

far too obscure to be of much interest - to me...
(just my own opinion)...
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 Posted 04/15/2019  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not even sure I understand what's being discussed here!
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 Posted 04/15/2019  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way, the marked up images are all the same coin but it was difficult to get both raised lines around the hair to show up in one image.(bangs)

Here are a few more images that show it pretty well.


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 Posted 04/15/2019  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This will help a bit more:
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/15/2019  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop for the images.

Nice collage showing the different raised areas pretty well.
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 Posted 04/16/2019  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1939 RED is a rarity. It has several distinct touch-ups on the die. I've looked through thousands of 1939 cents, and never have found one. I'm not aware of any explanation for why the 1939 RED exists. The "how" is evident, but why?

Your coin is interesting for several reasons. First, you have found several of them in circulated rolls. That suggests a re-engraved master die, rather than just one re-engraved working die, like 1939. Second, the line does look like a hand-crafted touch-up, but why would that happen in that location and why on a master die? third, the other usual suspects (die gouge or die crack) wouldn't explain the large number of coins that you have found and wouldn't be likely on a master die. What you have seems more like the odd enhancements made globally for the 1943 P-D-S cents, ODV-017,with the trench around the bow tie.

Are there any die markers in common among the coins? Conversely, is there anything to suggest multiple working dies were involved?
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 Posted 04/17/2019  06:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you fortcollins for the added info.

And that was my thinking about it also, being a master die or working hub since there were so many. It struck me as odd that there were more with the enhancement than with out it in my small sample.

I will have to find the partial roll and look for markers. I do remember that on some examples the raised enhancement extended down the forehead. (I just have to relocate them since I've done a little reorganizing! )

EDIT: I forgot to add that the trenching (or Channeling) you referred to is on many years between the '20's & '40's according to Error-Ref.com , but those trenching enhancements are incuse on the coins.
Edited by Petespockets55
04/17/2019 06:24 am
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