Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Change In Coin Grades After Recertification

 
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member

United States
47 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  12:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Hidalgo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
What are the chances that a graded coin, sent to a Third Party Grading ( TPG) company (primarily PCGS or NGC), will be certified at a higher or lower grade, OR will be recertified as "details." ?

Just wondering if I should take a chance to have some of my TPG certified coins removed from their holders and recertified.

Any advice? Thanks in advance.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1134 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before cracking them out,why not post them here and see what the experts think...
Valued Member
United States
185 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andy Herkimer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Before cracking them out,why not post them here and see what the experts think...


Great advice and will save you some $$$, give you a better idea of what's worth trying.
Pillar of the Community
United States
6051 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grading companies will tell you themselves the process is subjective. It is not a science. There is absolutely no guarantee the coin in the holder will ever get the same grade again. The law of averages dictates coins in a general same grade category get similar grades.

But as has already been said, the people on here can likely give you a pretty good idea if they think the general trend of the way things are graded will change what the label will say once re-slabbed.

Here is a good video to review to see the facts on the other side of the fence from the marketing departments of these companies:

rzPNrxliUf8


VixFtxxiZvQ


People who have put a lot of money into these companies probably won't like a new system to come along as it will probably affect the value of what they already have. But I can even see where the companies, initially, could make even more money from AI grading. But when uncertainty is gone, the companies lose from the subjectivity factor that is presently a part of the system.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
Edited by Earle42
05/14/2019 2:42 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12243 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The chance can be anywhere from 0-100 percent, it all depends on the coin.

While some generalities do exist they won't do you any good and may give you false hope.


Quote:
People who have put a lot of money into these companies probably won't like a new system to come along as it will probably affect the value of what they already have. But I can even see where the companies, initially, could make even more money from AI grading.


Anything that turns grading on it's head is already DOA, there's 10s of billions of dollars worth of graded coins 1-70 is here to stay.

AI is already used by at least PCGS for help with counterfeit detection which is where it's value is. AI grading wouldn't be what people think it would and has to be trained by humans, you would also then be putting grading into the hands of a programmer instead of actual coin experts. AI would also be easier to manipulate grade wise etc. It just simply wouldn't be what people think it would be and I really don't get why some are so eager to trust everything to computers and remove humans.
New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hidalgo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before cracking them out,why not post them here and see what the experts think...

Thanks for the advice. I have 2 certified coins that I am thinking of re-certifying. I'll post each coin in a separate post.

The first is a 1905 P Indian Head cent. It was graded by the National Numismatic Certification. What certified grade do you think it might earn? Is it a "detail" coin? And is it red, red-brown, brown, something else?




New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hidalgo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before cracking them out,why not post them here and see what the experts think...

Thanks for the advice. I have 2 certified coins that I am thinking of re-certifying. I'll post each coin in a separate post.

The second is a 1955 P Double Die cent. It was graded by ANACS. What certified grade do you think it might earn? Is it a "detail" coin? And is it red, red-brown, brown, something else?




Bedrock of the Community
United States
12243 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The NNC coin go ahead and crack that out, there's no lost value removing that and may actually be increased value. It'd be an RB and the black spot on the reverse will hurt it and possibly questionable color.

The second coin what is it graded now? It's current grade matters for whether or not to remove it
New Member
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hidalgo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks basebal21. I was reluctant to share the grade, only because I did not want to influence the feedback.

Yes, I know that NNC is not a highly-respected TPG. NNC graded the 1905 Indian Head cent as MS-66 Red. I know that grade would not be supported by PCGS or NGC. I do not understand your comment about "possibly questionable color." Are you saying that it may be an altered coin?

The 1955 Double Die cent was graded by ANACS ar MS60 RB.

Thanks again.

Pillar of the Community
United States
6051 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@baseball - Watch the videos and you will see the guy is not saying to get rid of anything! he is suggesting the best way to implement an accurate grading system is to take the work already done all of these years by humans and use that work to train the computer. The system he is proposing uses slabs to make the standards.

Using already slabbed coins means the human information is compiled so the best idea of what humans see as (let's say) MS62 for (let's say) a Morgan dollar can be applied. Instead of just three trained graders per coin, thousands (probably) of formerly slabbed MS62 Morgan's would be being used to set THE grade for the submitted coin...all based on the years of experience graders at the companies.

Another interesting thing is that data from the different companies could be quantifiably compared to see just how different the companies really are.

Its probably the best of both worlds for the hobby. All of the trained humans that have been grading all of these years indirectly set the standard through data input of their accomplished work. Plus you always get a scientifically accurate (repeatable - verifiable by repeatability) grade assigned to every coin.

This kind of programming is certainly not anything a mobile app. could not be made to do, and some phones have a scanner more than capable of making the program work.

- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12243 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I do not understand your comment about "possibly questionable color." Are you saying that it may be an altered coin?


The color does look a little funky on the obverse and a lot of times some of those basement style slabbing companies will buy details coins and then straight grade them.


Quote:

The 1955 Double Die cent was graded by ANACS ar MS60 RB.


I kind of suspected that was in something like a 60 with all the marks. I would leave it. If you did anything with that try a cross over


Quote:
@baseball - Watch the videos and you will see the guy is not saying to get rid of anything! he is suggesting the best way to implement an accurate grading system is to take the work already done all of these years by humans and use that work to train the computer. The system he is proposing uses slabs to make the standards.


I'm aware of what he's proposing, I am also aware of all the unintended consequences that would happen. The coin doctors would love to just have to try and beat a computer and have the humans removed, countless fakes and doctoring methods have ended up being discovered just because something didn't feel right. Beating a computer that would have to try and figure out something it has never seen before with a new method is much easier than having to beat a human expert that has computer assistance.


Quote:

Another interesting thing is that data from the different companies could be quantifiably compared to see just how different the companies really are.


That would have to be a brand new company, PCGS isn't going to train it's system based off NGC nor would they. The market already tells us how much each company is valued.


Quote:
Plus you always get a scientifically accurate (repeatable - verifiable by repeatability) grade assigned to every coin.


What you would honestly get is a destroyed market as confidence would be destroyed in the major companies if they went that route when doctoring and fakes were getting by the computer left and right which eventually they would.

We literally have computers crashing planes around the world because of eroding human skill and the computer being confused. Turning over grading to computers entirely would be the same debacle and tons of unintended consequences that eventually would make the market a shell of its former self
Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2019  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The NNC coin go ahead and crack that out, there's no lost value removing that




That discoloration is a bummer.

Valued Member
Australia
101 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2019  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add serenitystan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1905 is a dipper. Has been dipped a very long time ago and has slowly toned up. Wrap it up in a thin cotton cloth to keep the dust off it and in about a hundred years you wont see that it has been dipped as the tone will hide the dipped colour...
Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2019  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Wrap it up in a thin cotton cloth to keep the dust off it and in about a hundred years you wont see that it has been dipped as the tone will hide the dipped colour...


Nah. "Taco Bell" it, and it may nicely retone in a matter of months.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2181 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2019  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For quicker results place it somewhere on your body...quick great toning.

KK
Pillar of the Community
United States
7060 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2019  10:02 am  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd probably leave it in the holder, and try and flip the Indian on ebay just to get rid of it. I really like the 1955, and a crossover might be worth a shot, depending on what you paid for it.
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.36 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05