Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

NGC And Ebay Partner On Expert Review Service

 
Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 5
Forum Dad
Learn More...
United States
20133 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2019  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That may be, but with this new service, why wouldn't their policy be that if they believe the coin to be "Likely Not Genuine" then they would report that opinion to eBay?


Exactly why I say the video posted may not be accurate. I'm finding out for sure but its the weekend.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12558 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's real easy to render opinions when you have 1) no skin in the game, and 2) you have no liability when something goes wrong.
This. This is great for NGC and eBay, it's the collector that will suffer. What happens when they say likely real and a collector than says I paid 5 bucks thats as good as NGC grading I'll buy it, and it turns out to be fake years later.

What happens when they get a non binding wide range opinion on something that is wrong? ]

Someone get NGC to put in writing that it is a long time grader reviewed by a finalizer and maybe I will be interested.

Ask them who will review ancients when that's basically two people supposedly who are flooded already and don't even assure authenticity for coins sent in for grading for real on ancients.

Not trying to be a debbie downer, but people that are taking money should back up their opinions, the collector who thinks this is a security blanket is the loser here
Pillar of the Community
United States
1109 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  07:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO it's not clear exactly what eBay's role in this is?

The link that is on a listing page is treated by advertisement blocking software as an ad. If you click on the link, then you're taken completely out of the eBay website and directed to an NGC site where the transaction occurs. It looks like eBay isn't even passing any information to NGC, as you have to tell NGC the item number so that someone at NGC can later go on eBay and look that item up. If it was a real partnership, you'd think that eBay would at least pass NGC the item number.

So, it seems like this is really just like any other advertisement that pops up on eBay. eBay is probably being paid to show the advertisement on their pages but doesn't really have any connection to the "service" other than that.
Valued Member
United States
276 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JoggingLiberty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I never asked if EBay gets a cut of the money that NGC earns from this, I would be curious if they do.

EBay has been looked down on by the precious metals stacking/ coin collecting community for years and this may help their image slightly. THIS may very well be all that EBay wants from this deal (a better self-image).

The last poster makes a great point in how it's up to the buyer to copy+paste the item number and there's not some page with info that's automatically generated. Since it works that way, it's impossible to know if someone from EBay to know if a buyer utilized NGC for this service or not and nothing is reported back to EBay from NGC because the information is kept between NGC and the buyer of the service.
Valued Member
United States
253 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  11:42 am  Show Profile   Check Singer's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Singer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A few observations:

The perceived "value" of the service is subjective. Determining the authenticity of a raw coin is certainly a benefit to a potential buyer, so I could see that being helpful. As for the grade determination categories available - the "Likely Low Circulated (1-35), Likely High Circulated (40-58), Likely Uncirculated (60-70), Likely Proof (60-70) or Inconclusive" are so broad in range that they're almost useless.

(Human nature being what it is, the buyer using this service will almost certainly believe that the coin in question will fall into the HIGHER end of the range as determined by NGC. We all know the difference in value between an XF40 and an AU58 in almost any series. So in that sense, I think this service is making things worse.)

Determining if a raw coin is a proof or business strike is advantageous, but the range of PF60-70 is not. This could be advantageous to Cherrypickers if the following is true:


Quote:
So as I pointed out from NGC, the buyer of the service is the only one to receive any information about the expert review. So if the coin is possibly fake, then the only person that will know is the buyer of the service.



If not, I could see the following scenario unfolding: What if a raw Lincoln cent that is listed as a business strike is suspected of being a matte proof - we all know it happens - and the NGC service comes back as "Likely Genuine, Likely Proof"? Does the seller then change his listing to reflect this? Does someone at NGC buy it? Posting the results would certainly affect the listing and not always in a positive way.

What about offering an opinion on whether or not the coin is cleaned? Isn't that one of the most difficult determinations on a raw coin for most collectors/buyers? What about questionable color or corrosion or environmental damage? I would think that these would be equally as important as, if not more than, the grade range offered.


Under the proposed service you could get a result of Likely Genuine, Likely Uncirculated. The buyer (as I mentioned above) likely feeling the coin was in the middle to high end of the grade range, decides to send it in to be slabbed by NGC. The coin comes back in a body bag for details/cleaned. However, under this circumstance NGC would still be correct given the parameters of the evaluation service previously provided.

Is NGC offering this service to the seller to preliminarily grade his coin? Would the seller then be able to post these results? If the answer is no, then this is really a disingenuous attempt to increase revenue on both eBay's and NGC's part.

What happens if the same coin is submitted more than once to NGC? Would a second evaluation be provided and would it be the same? Or would they simply go to their database and provide the same evaluation to the new inquiry? Hmmm!

Finally, given eBay's desire to make it all about the buyer (those members here selling on eBay know what I mean), how long will it be before eBay finds a way to pass this cost on to the Sellers?


Pillar of the Community
United States
4694 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
how long will it be before eBay finds a way to pass this cost on to the Sellers?


I'd just about bet that conversion has been cussed and discussed within eBay already. If it can be done they'll absolutely do it.

I venture to guess that eBay will eventually encourage Sellers to submit their listings for uncertified coins for NGC's preliminary reviews "to help drive your selling and save your customers valuable time and offer coins with less worry". They'll probably fix it so the preliminary reviews can be done before the listings even go live.

As for now, it looks like eBay is taking a hands-off wait and see approach and making it look like everything is NGC's idea and ownership.

You can bet your bottom dollar that eBay is getting a piece of the action though!
Forum Dad
Learn More...
United States
20133 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
and nothing is reported back to EBay from NGC because the information is kept between NGC and the buyer of the service.


You're speculating. I told you, I know for a fact that NGC has been actively reporting fakes to the same contact I have for years. Those reports are usually removed within minutes. So it's easy peasy for them to have someone pay for the service, they determine it's fake, report it to eBay in seconds, and in a few minutes it's gone. They've been doing it already.
Valued Member
United States
253 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Check Singer's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Singer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An update:


Quote:
What about offering an opinion on whether or not the coin is cleaned? Isn't that one of the most difficult determinations on a raw coin for most collectors/buyers? What about questionable color or corrosion or environmental damage? I would think that these would be equally as important as, if not more than, the grade range offered.



I just went to the NGC page linked from an active eBay auction and found these additional grade options: "Likely Details Graded, Likely No Grade and Inconclusive ($5.00 refund)". So I guess that settles that concern.

It appears that Ebay is adding this link to every raw coin listed without the Seller having a choice to either opt in or out. Will this become just another mandatory Ebay Seller requirement disguised as a "feature" similar to free returns?

I maintain it's only a matter of time before the costs get shifted to the Seller.

to be continued...
Edited by Singer
07/14/2019 7:08 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2579 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gosh! So much negativity!

I would assume that at least 98 out of 100 times the authenticity and the grading opinion will be correct.
Unless there is evidence that NGC is wrong more than 2% of the time.

So, as an inexperienced or suspicious buyer interested in expert confirmation on the authenticity or grade range for just 5 to 10 bucks, why wouldn't this seem like a very reasonable deal?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12558 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would assume that at least 98 out of 100 times the authenticity and the grading opinion will be correct.
Unless there is evidence that NGC is wrong more than 2% of the time.


There's a night and day difference between an NGC employee looking at an eBay picture where they guarantee nothing and have 0 liability and sending in a coin to NGC where it actually goes through the grading room in hand seen by multiple graders and a finalizer.

There's basically essentially no chance any finalizer or better graders have been pulled from the grading room for this given what those people make.

My biggest issue with it is that you won't be getting anywhere close to the level of expertise as if you sent them the coin, yet there will be people who will view it as a cheaper way to use the TPG and get a false sense of security from it. The coins where you would need it the most is where it will be the most unreliable. Do you really think Barry Murphy will be pulled from the grading room to look at eBay ancients questions?


Edited by basebal21
07/14/2019 11:21 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4694 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2019  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pillar of the Community
United States
2579 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone curious enough to give it a try?

I just ran across a coin on eBay I'd like to have in my collection, but I'm a little concerned about authenticity. I'm thinking I could take one for the team for $5 (or less) and report back.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2579 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now for the play-by-play.

I followed the link from eBay (by the way, I also noticed that not all coins have this link. Hmmm...) put in my credit card info, and submitted.

I got this email confirmation:

Dear -----,
We've received your NGC Expert Review request for this listing:

(title of eBay listing...I'm gonna keep you in suspense)

An NGC expert will review your request within two business days and you'll receive another email with the results.
Thank you,
NGC
Edited by tdziemia
07/15/2019 5:54 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1109 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
(title of eBay listing...I'm gonna keep you in suspense)

Fair enough

Will be interesting to see what NGC says about the coin. What's your opinion, using NGC criteria, now before you hear back from NGC
Pillar of the Community
United States
2579 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2019  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I collect world coins in the late medieval to early modern era (11th to 18th century).

The coin in question is a medieval which, if authentic, sells at auction in the $500 range. If I am serious about bidding, I figure spending about 1% of that for an opinion on authenticity is a reasonable investment. So, I did not ask NGC for a grade range, just for an authenticity opinion (as best I can tell, they have never grade this type).

I know that there are European auction houses which have better expertise than NGC on this coin. I see some differences between this coin and other examples sold at auction (it does not come up very often) that make me suspicious.



Edited by tdziemia
07/15/2019 8:03 pm
Page: of 5 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2019 Coin Community Forums
It took 1.12 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05