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Shows Us Those Overgraded Slabs From Major Companies

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12944 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here is one on eBay now and alongside it the picture from the PCGS grading guide of what VF35 should look like..


That's not how it works. The 37 d in the "what it should look like" picture is one of the best made dates of the series. Thew picture is too poor to tell but many buffalos especially early branch mint issues had striking issues. The picture is washing it out some as well, but date and mint marks matter.


Quote:
Both of these are graded VF-30! Which would you rather have?


The first one from PCGS. That one is actually an attractive coin while the other one was netted down for being cleaned
Fire A.J. Preller

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
554 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin-Flipper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The new portrait of a vf 20

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United States
2696 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2019  08:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, coin-flipper! You win the prize for the most out-of-whack photo proof. 20 must a popular number to remember off the top of the grader's head. Overgrading has become a real problem.
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United States
1060 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Newfoundland fishscale. MS-64? Seriously?


Bedrock of the Community
United States
12944 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
enlarged picture is an old terrible secure plus scan impossible to judge from those hence they got rid of them
Fire A.J. Preller

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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Check John K's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's not how it works. The 37 d in the "what it should look like" picture is one of the best made dates of the series. Thew picture is too poor to tell but many buffalos especially early branch mint issues had striking issues. The picture is washing it out some as well, but date and mint marks matter.


I don't agree with this when it comes to grading. Maybe on mint state coins you could say MS-63 weak strike or MS-64 full feathers. But To give a circulated coin a higher grade just because some of the coins of that year were weakly struck doesn't wash. How would you know if the condition on a circulated coin was due to wear or poor strike. They would both look worn.

Not all 25-D nickles are weak strikes. I like this F 12 better than the VF shown above. And the wowser shows some were struck just fine.

I see some dealers grading stuff as excellent shape "for its age"! In other words not so hot.


Pillar of the Community
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I like this F 12 better than the VF shown above.

I think it's F-12.
No tip on the horn and by ANA standards the highest it can be is F-12.

As for the "VF shown above", the images are so bad I can't tell.
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12944 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2019  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't agree with this when it comes to grading.


Everyone is certainly free to use their own standards, but that is how it's done. Date and MM matter when it comes to grading which is why you can't compare the highest quality date to a lower quality one grade for grade.

By all means everyone should buy how they want, but just because collecting as a whole doesn't follow someones personal standard doesn't mean they are overgrading


Quote:
Not all 25-D nickles are weak strikes.


Absolutely, and the nice ones that aren't command premium prices.


Quote:
No tip on the horn and by ANA standards the highest it can be is F-12.


Going by just the horn or having a single design feature be a hard limiting factor was the old way of grading many decades ago and hasn't been how it's done for several decades now.
Fire A.J. Preller

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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2019  07:49 am  Show Profile   Check John K's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is another Geo.V nickle. The other side looks better but I would never call this AU-58 because of the side shown.


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Canada
2260 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2019  08:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Quote:
SPP-Ottawa: Lot 1060, TCNC Auction, October 2015 Torex

I cut this out of its holder basically out of pure disgust... I would not even grade this one MS-64.

It seems hard to believe that someone at ICCS has conscientiously given your coin such a grade.

I wonder if the coin had possibly been evaluated as MS-64, but at the time of creating the certificate, a typing error had occurred (the numbers "4" and "7" are next to each other on the keyboard numpad).

If this is the case, it is still sad from a buyer's point of view, but it is an error easier to accept in my opinion versus a failed evaluation at this level.


There's one way to find out for sure and I don't know why I didn't think of this in my earlier response.

Ask ICCS to tell you the grade on their submission form copy.

They have all of these on file.

Just give them the ICCS cert number and they should tell you whether or not it was graded an ms67.

The previous time it happened to me was on a 1967 gold coin, they typed in ms67, but on my submission form it was an ms64.

Proof positive it was a typo, as I would be shocked if ICCS thinks that dollar is an ms67.

If they do, then I might as well have 'Asyn' grade my coins.
Edited by doubleeagle59
11/19/2019 08:24 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1026 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2019  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I cut this out of its holder basically out of pure disgust... I would not even grade this one MS-64


Reminds me of when I finally found an ICCS graded MS-66 type 4 cent at auction. I opened the package with great excitement when it arrived! It was flashy, had a great overall look, and upon closer inspection...was in fact a type 3 cent that ICCS just totally dropped the ball on.
Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2019  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Check John K's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They really must only be grading one side of these. And I don't want to hear that each date must be graded differently because of poor strikes some years. How you supposed to know if it is a poor strike or wear. I would grade this no higher than XF and maybe not that high. Here for comparison is my 1922. The other side of both coins is very nice but give me a break - way too much detail missing (or worn off) on the NGC example for me to agrre with MS-62.





Pillar of the Community
Canada
1458 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2019  01:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1922-1936 5 cent series is very difficult to grade and weak strikes were common and this has to be considered when looking at overall wear of the coin in determining a grade.
Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2019  09:27 am  Show Profile   Check John K's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If that is what they are calling MS-62, then my raw 1922 must be a 68! If a coin truly never circulated and is "mint state" they should use some kind of qualifier to note the poor strike. Somebody is going to go by the number on the slab and overpay for this NGC coin.

I think all they are going by is the remaining luster and ignoring the remaining details.
Valued Member
Canada
169 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2019  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How you supposed to know if it is a poor strike or wear.


On circulated examples ( EF or lower ) it's difficult, however on a mintstate coin it is quite easy. If the lustre is undisturbed then it is a strike quality issue as A coins design can't wear if the lustre is still there covering it.
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