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Shows Us Those Overgraded Slabs From Major Companies

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Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2020  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does Jody (CBH) know you are critiquing his coins?


I'm guessing that is the person who owns this piece? I do not know if he know about this thread, if this is breaking some form of rules I can delete the posts.


Quote:
.Look at the eyebrow on any pure nickel 5c George VI coin in almost every ICCS or PCGS holder, and try to find a single one (that is not a specimen strike) without a weak strike on the brow and hair. They are ALL like that. ICCS knows that, and PCGS knows that. That is why you won't see MS-67 grades like you do with silver composition coins. 1940 and 1942 are even worse years, as those dies were pushed to their absolute limits.


I have seen some (admitly some from other years) with strikes much fuller than the coin pictured here, from my experience this coin has one of the more flat strikes I have seen. The coin featured under this coin on the PCGS pop reports



Not only has a slightly better strike (closer to what I would call an average strike), looks a whole lot cleaner, but yet only graded an MS-66 as well.


Quote:
. Lastly - while PCGS Trueview photos are beautiful, they also tend to bring out the worst of the smallest defects, as light catches any defect and highlights it. Jody, and PCGS had the coin in hand, which is important for gauging eye appeal. I'll forward this link to Jody, and maybe he can explain this coin better that the Trueview photos can, and maybe it even has an ICCS history.


I think that would be a good idea. I imagine His input, having the coin in person, would be much more telling than just the photos.
Valued Member
Canada
147 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2020  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dollar 1935 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree whit Spp ; the trueview can exagerate the bag marks.
Here is for exemple another 5 cents, certified ms-66, at the first look, the field is really clean and the smaller marks on the neck are hard enought to see in hands. The difference whit my ICCS ms-65 exemple is really impressive.




On the other hand, I got this exemple from the wildlife museum collection, the coin's lustre and strike are amazing, almost proof-like but the field is full of small marks, especially on the obverse.


I tought my coin was overgraded but the other ms-66 and the 66+ seems to have a lot of marks too when inspected.

I don't have any problem to pay 10x the price of a ms-64 but whit those very high grade coins I would like at least to not doubt of the grade when I inspect them...
Edited by Dollar 1935
03/08/2020 01:49 am
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Got to thank user Living water for sharing this one.








This coin was bought sight unseen, which though I do greatly say try to avoid, buying a certified bullion issue should usually be a safe bet, not here I guess.

As I said on the owners post, I have heard people say that the TPGs spend minimal time grading modern bulk submissions, and sometimes just pull a random pile to grade 70s, and another to grade 69s, I however don't know if I believe that, but there are apparently bulk submitters who strongly do, and with pieces like this, maybe they're right.
Valued Member
Canada
425 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2020  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm thinking that TPG's don't read coin material . The coin below is graded PCGS EF-45. Here's a photo from the Charlton 1983 catalogue about how to grade coins. Please read the details about the pearls and band and THEN have a look at the coin .



Drum roll, please.

GRADE CREEP is now GRADE LEAP !




I would not go above VF-30 on this one.

The gold coin above, MS-69, must stand for Major Scrapes with how many there are. (edit: just read okie's post below - he nailed it -MS-machinegun shots.) Absolutely pathetic company - please everyone - stop slabbing coins !!
Edited by TerryT
04/07/2020 6:28 pm
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United States
2936 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2020  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like Liberty was machine-gunned.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1823 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2020  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back in September, John K asked


Quote:
How you supposed to know if it is a poor strike or wear.


and Numis-Northerner replied


Quote:
On circulated examples ( EF or lower ) it's difficult, however on a mintstate coin it is quite easy. If the lustre is undisturbed then it is a strike quality issue as A coins design can't wear if the lustre is still there covering it.


However, I don't think that is true, at least, on European coins. I have many coins which retain full lustre even though wear is clearly evident. When wear is obvious it's quite different from a poor strike.

I think you have to know the series to know whether weak strikes exist and whether they're common.

For example, it's my experience that the vertical hairlines on British George VI silver and pennies is very often weakly struck and that can easily be seen on EF and MS examples whether or not there is lustre.
Life Fellow, Royal Numismatic Society

My wants list: http://goccf.com/t/283145
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2020  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. However, I don't think that is true, at least, on European coins. I have many coins which retain full lustre even though wear is clearly evident. When wear is obvious it's quite different from a poor strike.


Then it sounds like it could be die polishing issues, but I don't it's possible for a coin to wear with lustre disturbance as the luster is essentially the 'top' layer of the coin, the 'jacket' of the coin if you will.
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2020  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@TerryT

Tbh I'm surprised they didn't give that coin an AU-58 grade, it seems any coin with the slightest hint of lustre get that nowadays.
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2020  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaned, scratched. Straight grade PCGS AU-50.

TrueView



CC&C photos
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United States
2936 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2020  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With that much hair, eyebrow and cheek wear, they gave it a 50? Say it ain't so!
Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2020  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.With that much hair, eyebrow and cheek wear, they gave it a 50? Say it ain't so


It's also one of the three coins PCGS shows for this date on their site, how they can be so bad at grading certain series in circulated grades and seemingly still have, to some, the most valued opinion on the grades of them baffles me.
Valued Member
United States
277 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2020  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Check John K's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really like the toning on this beauty but cannot agree with the MS-65 grade because of all the obverse bag marks. What say you?

Valued Member
Canada
373 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2020  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. I really like the toning on this beauty but cannot agree with the MS-65 grade because of all the obverse bag marks. What say you?


I could see it just making a 65 on the best day, blue moon, all the planets aligned and all that, but I think 99/100 times that coin is a 64.
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