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Shows US Those Overgraded Slabs From Major Companies

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Canada
9778 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2021  09:40 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Almost every Canadian coin I acquire in an ANACS holder, I crack out. Mind you, the majority are errors, and ANACS is not great at grading and attributing Canadian error coins.

As a collector of nickel dollars, I completely agree about ICCS flips are not well designed for larger, heavier coins.

I use NGC for foreign coins and PCGS for higher end Canadian coins. Lower value coins that I intend to sell in a Canadian market, I use ICCS.

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
2349 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2021  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1952 Canada Dollar $ MS66 NGC.....$1200.00 USD.

Oh my!!

Not a chance it even grades an ms65 at ICCS.

It's either an ms63 or at best an ms64.

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Canada
2349 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2021  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and here's another one from the same seller and this one is ten times as worse.

1916 Canada 10c MS65+ NGC .....$895.00 USD

Probably an ICCS non-MS coin, most likely au55-au58, as it's a coin that has zero wear but has been kept rattling around for eternity probably in a bag with another 50 coins in there. Hence, all the chatter marks. How even NGC could see this as Mint State is beyond me.


Edited by doubleeagle59
03/23/2021 5:16 pm
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Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2021  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-65+?!?! I'd probably go to MS-60 on it because it does appear to be wear free, and has full luster, but ms-65+?!?!
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United States
506 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2021  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Colhand1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those coins definitely have problems, I don't believe I would have sent either to a TPG to get graded.
The King George is has good characteristics but all those bag marks in the field and the rims are awful.
I agree with both of you
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Canada
2349 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2021  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC 1948 UNC details......can you believe this grade?


Edited by doubleeagle59
06/11/2021 10:32 pm
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United States
8739 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2021  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's really bad...

Reason 1,512,634 I buy the coin not the holder
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
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United States
247 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2021  01:54 am  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Tokens are not immune from this sort of TPG exuberance, either. This one closed on eBay yesterday, selling at US $145.10. It had 22 bidders!

What's really interesting is that Donald Partrick, whose higher-end material has been all over Heritage this year, had it on his own envelope at "EF, WAS VF 30."

I've had my own example of this token pegged at VF for years, and it's a shade better than this one, I believe. My theory is that -- when it comes to tokens -- those of us who have been collecting for a few decades have seen and handled many more of any given type or variety than any individual grader at a TPG will see in a lifetime. That puts the responsibility on whatever quality control processes may or may not be in effect at the TPG...and apparently there aren't many.




"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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Canada
615 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2021  04:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some of the tokens are a tricky - the original strikes were often sub-par to start with so baseline is a challenge. I this case, I could imagine that the grader was thrown by some of the features on the obverse: the lacing between the buttons on the coat and the coat in general.

But agreed the the hair on the obverse - that's Mr. Brock I believe - and, for the love of jesus, the reverse - are squarely in the F/VF range
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United States
247 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2021  09:37 am  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Maybe "professional graders" should be required to research their own organization's registry and archives for comparables?

Here's the closed-sleeve variety of the same token, graded by the same TPG. Better hair (both sides), better collar-shoulder transition, etc. It's obvious that by definition these were struck from different dies, obverses anyway, but that hardly accounts for a difference of 20 points on the MS scale.




In total agreement with Silver101, establishing a baseline can be difficult, especially if the grader hasn't handled more than a few of a particular type. I sometimes have the same difficulty myself, over in my little corner of Anglo-Canadian exonumismatics.

To illustrate that, while NGC's VF-35 here is overall a more "pleasing" example than their putative AU-55 (above) to those of us who collect them, differences in die and strike characteristics can be notable and you end up with wear and flattening in different places. (For example, the bale, and the legend, specifically the thickness and observable flattening of letters...how different were they on the day these two tokens were minted?)

A bunch of us CCF members have had plenty of conversations on this very topic over at the Canadian token collectors' thread. (Not that we're special...just different... )

So yes, a lot of variables have to be taken into account with tokens, and I'm imagining -- having seen PhotoGrade books for both US and Canadian coinage -- that things are a bit less complicated for the folks who work at TPGs grading RCM issues. My guess is that they try to squeeze these idiosyncratic little pieces of copper into their assembly line process and workflow, and for the most part that just doesn't work...not in our best interests, at least.

But the bottom line is that there's no way in heck* the LC-53A I posted earlier today is an AU, NGC's expensive opinion notwithstanding!

* (Interesting! Just noticed in "Preview" that I got robo-censored by CCF for my use of a different place name here, which was apparently auto-changed to "heck." Drat! I'll try to watch my @#$% language in the future, I promise.)

"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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Canada
164 Posts
 Posted 06/21/2021  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Check ainsivalavie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To date, I have accumulated over a period of many years nearly 8000 colonial tokens graded by a TPG in photos.

Thus, I am well positioned to make comparisons between grades for a given variety.

One thing I noticed quite quickly about NGC is their inexperience in grading colonial tokens that have circulated in Canada (Not to mention the staggering number of variety misidentifications). Thus, the only time I can give any importance to their grading is mainly limited to uncirculated or even AU+ tokens.

Edited by ainsivalavie
06/21/2021 2:29 pm
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